Comments on: Autumn Internationals 2017: England Player Ratings versus Samoa

By: Don P

Don P — Mon, 04 Dec 2017 18:29:43 +0000

Leon
Mmmm… NZ had mainly a 2nd string, dev pack though didn’t they? Yet they managed it 4 zip, away.

By: Don P

Don P — Mon, 04 Dec 2017 18:25:55 +0000

Rugger80
I think over much emphasis is placed on individuals. Rugby is a team sport, after all. A * team rather than a team of *s? Anyway what is WC? How is it measured? In terms of meters gained, carries made, tackle numbers, breakdowns, line outs won, breaks made, defenders beaten, kicks for ground/pts, points scored, tries? List goes on. Of course a team is made up of individuals whom comprise a team, but unless they click together, you can have King Kong & various super heroes in a side for all the use they’ll be if they don’t play together & understand what their & the team’s aim/s is/are. Also, I expect, as the cultures are different between the NH & SH, even the criteria are likely to be different. Don’t nec disputing yr choices regarding locks you mention, however Lawes & Launch weren’t even starters for England until recently. Food for thought maybe? Also I see Farrell as solid, fitting a certain mold, but wouldn’t compare him to B. Barrett. In terms of what the two are capable of producing, e.g., tries scored, vision, influence, it’s a different view of WC I believe.

By: Leon

Leon — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 08:53:19 +0000

I think it is a measure of the new rating system being used. NZ would have scored similar in all their autumn fixtures

By: Rugger80

Rugger80 — Thu, 30 Nov 2017 18:57:15 +0000

Of course team effort and team game-plan come into it Don P, but I also think that to win a WC you really need at least 8 of your starting 15 being ‘world class’ players in their position – this way even if the team game-plan is not firing you have enough individual quality to win a game. Now the term ‘world class’ can be interpreted differently but I see it as if you had to pull together a full match squad (including the bench) who would be in that team right now….for me England maybe would have two of Lawes/Itoje/Launch then Farrell, BV…maybe Daly for versatility. So looking at 4 – 5 players. Beyond that I would struggle to put anyone else in. Not saying the rest are bad players but I’d not call them World Class.

Anyway this is just my view and I am sure others have theirs.

By: Don P

Don P — Thu, 30 Nov 2017 17:33:24 +0000

So mostly 5s or 6s, with a couple of 7s & an 8 thrown in. Well, this is the author’s opinion, but nevertheless, do these scores tot up for a team aspiring to win the WC? Individuals feature here (as per the heading I know), but it’s how these individuals perform as a TEAM & whether they are EFFECTIVE or not which is surely of more importance. Maybe this is the real issue facing England. Instead of just individuals’ abilities (or lack of) , as indicated by the post’s title, emphasis ought to be on such key areas as a better understanding of tactics, decision making & TEAM skills.. alongside individual skills.

By: acee

acee — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:39:30 +0000

I think EJ missed a trick not giving Harry Williams more game time. Two 60-65 minute workouts v Argentina and Samoa would have either confirmed his capability at int’l level or found him out. Fifteen minute cameos do neither. What’s more i can’t see Eddie relegating Cole to the bench for the 6n thus compounding the t/head conundrum. Even if Eddie has already decided that Williams is third choice behind Cole then Sinckler,it would have been advantageous to back him as a confidence booster. You dropped the ball imo EJ.

By: Steve H

Steve H — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 18:51:16 +0000

No way was Robshaw Englands poorest player on Saturday. He’s no tearaway 7 as we all know, but he is consistently effective and hardworking. The breakdown is not his sole responsibility.

By: Alex

Alex — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 17:39:53 +0000

The break down has been shoddy all year, we struggle to retain possession. Although not having a genuine open side atm would be a factor I don’t think it can excuse a pack of 8 for getting turned over so often. I personally have found this very frustrating.

By: Leon

Leon — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 13:49:24 +0000

Agreed Jacob
The law changes have opened the game up to more 6.5’s who clear rucks and tackle like demons all day long. There is still room for poachers but it is my feeling that it is more about identifying when it is on than hunting for them all game and therefore is a skill required from 1-15

By: Jonny

Jonny — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 13:35:26 +0000

I think from this point onwards, EJ has to work out what he’ll do if certain players were to get injured in the run up to the WC. For example, if the likes of Hartley, Cole, Youngs, Care, Ford couldn’t feature in a run of games, I’m not sure they could call on anyone with any experience (particularly in the EJ set-up).

I guess they attempted this by resting most of the lions players this autumn, and they’ve gone without Billy and Robshaw in the past, I just think it’s something they need to continue to do, in order to cover the worst case scenario. (ie: Ford is injured just before WC, Farrell fails HIA early into a game)

By: Jacob Jeffery

Jacob Jeffery — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 13:06:10 +0000

I’m not so sure on the turnover stuff. Is Pocock or Hooper still managing that anymore? The change in laws this year around the ruck has completely negated a 7s ability to turn the ball over as they are being far stricter (rightly so) about a player supporting their own bodyweight. Basically, I think the need for this skill is diminishing slightly and we won’t see anyone knock out 3 or 4 of these in a game.

I’ve still seen him make a handful over the course of the season for Bath so I don’t think there is an issue here. My biggest issue is that he doesn’t get his hands on the ball enough, either as a link man or a carrier.

By: AlexD

AlexD — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 13:06:03 +0000

Genge deserved a 6.
Daly at 13 would definitely be worth seeing. Other than that EJ now knows alot more about his player options. Still no perfect back row but i guess EJ has two years to develop them and find that perfect balance.