Comments on: Best of the Weekend: Wales heartbroken, England retain JWC

By: Benjit

Benjit — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 18:12:00 +0000

They annoy me and I’m English! ! So you have my sympathy

By: brighty

brighty — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 16:21:09 +0000

PS I suspect I wouldn’t be so riled by the “hype” if I turned down the volume on sky sports. I know they don’t represent England but Miles, Harrison and Barnes do talk them up a lot. This probably fed my perception that the hype train was running full speed….

By: brighty

brighty — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 16:15:28 +0000

Yes, I agree SH sides have the advantage. The NH remains a competitive pool amongst itself but 0 wins against the top 3 from 8 tests so far says all we need to know.

Home advantage is a fair comment but it doesn’t play so much for me as Twickenham has been up and down for England over last few years?

Agree with you overall – we have a massive 15 months coming up and I think it’s much tastier looking now than it was a month ago.

By: Benjit

Benjit — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 15:40:09 +0000

You’ve mentioned it twice in as many articles Brighty, so hardly a passing mention, please be honest. You cite one subjective article by Robertson (which would seem utter t0ss to be fair), to justify this passing comment, ignoring most of the other articles and blogs on this subject. Most of the articles focussed not on how great England were but how ordinary (at times) NZ seemed. Maybe the RC will prove that to be pure hyperbole, but rinsing a knackered and disorganised Eng team in the third test doesn’t mean that is not a sound assessment.

The point I was making about the “foot of the pedal” as you describe it, is that it is impossible to tell whether SA took Wales for granted after comfortably beating them in the first test, in the same way that England couldn’t tell how well they had played in the first test or how rusty NZ were until they played again. Sadly the latter was the case, though the Horlicks of SL’s selections didn’t help.

With a year to go until the WC, I think all NH sides are still a way off their SH counterparts, but the encouraging performances of Eng and Wales away and depleted, show to me that the gap is closing. England I would say have an advantage over Wales, because of home advantage and surely you would agree that the home nations on both our tours got the rub of the green – not an excuse, but it was a reality nevertheless.

By: brighty

brighty — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 15:20:05 +0000

Then you’ve been ignoring the tiny thing I mention in passing in that paragraph that you have chosen to focus on Benjit – I’ve seen plenty in both the printed media and online blogs/comments. On Fri I listened to Ian Robertson dismiss Wales’ chances of progression from the RWC 2015 group and in the same breath talk about Eng challenging for the top honour. I saw Wales labelled as “hapless” because we lost in Twickenham, a game I didn’t see as anywhere near as one sided as it is remembered by some as being. As for the chip on your shoulder – I’m not bigging Wales up. I’m excited by what lays ahead and reiterate that I do not see England as a) “a notch off NZ” or b) a sure thing to qualify out of that group next year.

As for SA foot off pedal – NZ did that when a gazillion points up, Wales were ahead at all points until the last 2 mins. Can’t see how the two situations compare at all… Except perhaps you mean Eng got close in the 1st test because NZ assumed they’d be an easy win?

By: Benjit

Benjit — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 14:37:04 +0000

Brighty, take the chips of your shoulders, seriously. I haven’t seen any over hyping of England anywhere.

The first match, most thought we blew a golden opportunity, but considered the result not too bad given the selection constraints.

The second test most fans and media said the score line flattered England, as the game was effectively over after the three try blitz from ABs. The only hype I really read (Austin Healy aside) was that England’s performances had dimmed the All Black’s allure somewhat, and I don’t think that is incorrect.

England were competitive in the first 2 matches for a significant period and had a game plan to beat the ABs, but sadly could not sustain it for the whole match. The last match was a horrible capitulation that I largely blame the coaching staff for. It was clear that some players were dead on their feet after a long season (Brown and Launchbury to name but two), and he should have used his squad more (what’s the point in having this supposed depth, if we don’t use and capitalise on it). But ultimately the ABs look far more beatable than at any time in the last 3 years IMO, and I don’t expect them to remain unbeaten during the RC.

Also lets wait and see how Wales do in the next test before we start bigging them up, and see whether SA took their foot off the pedal as the ABs seemed to at times against England. I suspect the AIs will be a huge marker for both teams. Really England have to beat ABs at home to prove their good stints in NZ were gifted to them by the ABs, Wales likewise with SA. Unfortunately Eng also have a must win game against Aus (as the next time we meet them will be the crucial WC group game) and SA (not yet beaten them under SL – wouldn’t want that hanging over us if we meet them in the knockout stages). All in all a very big ask.

By: Jonny

Jonny — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 10:14:51 +0000

England made so many errors in the opening 5 mins, and didn’t recover until the second half. Restarts were awful, both receiving from NZ and kicking our own. This really has become a “set piece” area in the game, and needs addressing fast.

Also, Farrell Snr seems to like having a really narrow defence, a common problem for England, going back to the 2013 AI’s has been that teams get a lot of joy out of spreading the ball wide early. I know people will want to blame Ashton for tries being scored down his wing, but he didn’t stand a chance, NZ had two men over every time. (although he should have tackled Smith for the first one)

NZ commentary on the game highlighted that the width that Smith is able to get from the breakdown with his pass, completely negated the first 3 England defenders. Add a few players looping round and disaster.

Maybe not Hero of the Week, but some mention must go to LeRoux. 2 tries and assisted pretty much every other try scored across the 2 tests. Wales really didn’t seem to have an answer for him. If I was a Wales fan I would really hope that Gatland & co took notice of the fact that the smallest man on the field was tearing them to shreds, Wales have players like Morgan who have shown similar potential, would very much like to see them played more.

By: brighty

brighty — Mon, 23 Jun 2014 09:29:22 +0000

If there’s one thing we can deal well with it’s the psychological trauma of narrow last minute losses to SH teams. We’ll be fine – I prefer to think that, much like the narrow loss in the last WC, this will spur us onto another level, especially with Warbs/Tips/Halfpenny to come back, Samson Lee developing, Morgan/Williams/Davies as the exciting bench options, Scott Williams challenging Jamie, Dan Baker a real find at 8, Patchell hopefully injury free for a season. I’m excited. At least the game on Sat achieved that. Especially when contrasted with England who showed that they’re not the notch above everyone else in the NH that they were in danger of being built up to be (but perhaps it would have been good for us if they had been able to keep believing the hype), and Ireland didn’t set the world on fire in Arg either.

It’s encouraging to hear this described as a tough season for Wales – won all of our home 6 nations games, lost to the 2 teams above us. Didn’t beat a top3 SH side, again. Our expectations are now far, far higher than they were a decade ago. Good stuff.

Gutted though, gutted. What a chance. Should have won it and we can only blame ourselves.