Comments on: Marler’s citing proves disciplinary process is still broken http://www.therugbyblog.com/marlers-citing-proves-disciplinary-process-is-still-broken Rugby Union opinion and discussion, for the fans, by the fans. Sat, 30 Jul 2016 12:25:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.1.1 By: brightyhttp://www.therugbyblog.com/marlers-citing-proves-disciplinary-process-is-still-broken#comment-387078 Wed, 16 Mar 2016 16:41:26 +0000 http://www.therugbyblog.com/?p=41396#comment-387078 Understood Ray, thanks for clarifying.

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By: Rayhttp://www.therugbyblog.com/marlers-citing-proves-disciplinary-process-is-still-broken#comment-387071 Wed, 16 Mar 2016 15:56:52 +0000 http://www.therugbyblog.com/?p=41396#comment-387071 Sadly Brighty we are told this by various judicial or quasi judicial bodies. You may recall the review into possible racism in the Metropolitan Police. The report was quite clear that the Police’s interpretation of racialy offensive remarks was ‘ something which a reasonable person would find offensive’ was wrong. The report made it clear that ‘reasonableness was no defense’ and concluded that the police were institutionaly racist.There are other examples.

I was trying to make the point that holding any kind of debate in these circumstances is pointless without a reasonable measure of commonsense or reason.

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By: brightyhttp://www.therugbyblog.com/marlers-citing-proves-disciplinary-process-is-still-broken#comment-387046 Wed, 16 Mar 2016 10:09:26 +0000 http://www.therugbyblog.com/?p=41396#comment-387046 Aye Stroudos, but loony fringes on either sides of the argument can’t be used, as Teecee has done, as a basis to deny the whole thing.

I’ve seen the video footage and do think where a person stands on the severity of it is a personal thing, I’m fine with that and will continue to disagree with those who think it’s not an issue. What I don’t like is Teecee’s attempt to be absolute and say it is categorically fine, everyone who disagrees is just one of the “professionally offended” etc.

At the moment I think the whole vacuum around the issue is unhelpful – it’s obviously caught the authorities unawares (which I guess in some ways is a good sign, as it’s so uncommon) but while they dither about what to do about it you just get the extremes on both sides trying to outshout each other.

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By: brightyhttp://www.therugbyblog.com/marlers-citing-proves-disciplinary-process-is-still-broken#comment-387045 Wed, 16 Mar 2016 10:04:05 +0000 http://www.therugbyblog.com/?p=41396#comment-387045 Leon, I’ve not said English/Welsh isn’t a nationality – on the contrary, I’ve said the opposite. They are nationalities, but they are not races.

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By: Leonhttp://www.therugbyblog.com/marlers-citing-proves-disciplinary-process-is-still-broken#comment-387044 Wed, 16 Mar 2016 09:48:02 +0000 http://www.therugbyblog.com/?p=41396#comment-387044 That’s about the 4th time you have said English/Welsh is not a Nationality or race.
Why are we allowed our own rugby teams then?

I certainly consider myself an English Brit as much as you would consider yourself a Welsh Brit. To deny me my nationality would be “_____” (please fill in the blanks)

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By: stroudoshttp://www.therugbyblog.com/marlers-citing-proves-disciplinary-process-is-still-broken#comment-387042 Wed, 16 Mar 2016 09:25:14 +0000 http://www.therugbyblog.com/?p=41396#comment-387042 Yeah, but Brighty, a lot of the outcry and condemnation of Joe Marler has indeed been very sanctimonious and preachy.

Look at what Marler said in the context provided by the video footage and this really is a case of making a mountain from a molehill.

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By: brightyhttp://www.therugbyblog.com/marlers-citing-proves-disciplinary-process-is-still-broken#comment-387037 Wed, 16 Mar 2016 07:47:00 +0000 http://www.therugbyblog.com/?p=41396#comment-387037 Brilliant, we’re into classic Daily Mail phase 2. Once the original offence is cooling down lets abuse those who find it racist because if they don’t agree with us that it’s not racist then they’re sanctimonious, etc. It’s political correctness gone mad! Nobody was killed! It was only words! Shut down the debate with abuse because I disagree!

The fact you seem to think the only thing that is important is whether Samson Lee himself was offended just sums it up.

Teecee your prejudices are clear and bizarre. You’ve gone from thinking it’s ok to then accusing those of us who have an issue with it of being closet everything-phobes using nothing more than your tiny imagination. By all means put forward a decent case for there being no ban but your need to include abuse and imagined failings of others with it just proves that you don’t really have a point.

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By: Stuart Ekinshttp://www.therugbyblog.com/marlers-citing-proves-disciplinary-process-is-still-broken#comment-387036 Wed, 16 Mar 2016 07:18:06 +0000 http://www.therugbyblog.com/?p=41396#comment-387036 “How do you judge if something would be offensive to the recipient. ”

The views of the recipient don’t matter, there are plenty of people ready to be offended on his behalf whether he wants it or not.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35816178

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By: Markhttp://www.therugbyblog.com/marlers-citing-proves-disciplinary-process-is-still-broken#comment-387033 Wed, 16 Mar 2016 01:46:00 +0000 http://www.therugbyblog.com/?p=41396#comment-387033 Nobody expects professional rugby players in the heat of battle to be furry and friendly towards each other. That said the world we now operate in and this includes sport quiet rightly does not accept racial abuse. It is as simple as that and Joe M knew this. So a ban is the correct decision and we can all move on.

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By: TeamCamhttp://www.therugbyblog.com/marlers-citing-proves-disciplinary-process-is-still-broken#comment-387032 Tue, 15 Mar 2016 23:58:00 +0000 http://www.therugbyblog.com/?p=41396#comment-387032 Isn’t your assertion, “when uttered by some mutants”, the very definition of discrimination?

There seems to be as many justifications based around historical context or some fanciful (if, admittedly, legally sound) idea regarding race, despite it being as nebulous a concept as fluency, as there are justifications of Marler’s behaviour.

Is it not simply true that, regardless of what he actually said, he was seeking only to offend and provoke, and thus was being a wanker? Surely the content is irrelevant. Calling me ‘Scottish boy’ isn’t inherently offensive. Neither is ‘black boy’. Neither is ‘Tory boy’. It’s the intent. Would people be upset if Marler had called Samson “fat boy”?

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By: stroudoshttp://www.therugbyblog.com/marlers-citing-proves-disciplinary-process-is-still-broken#comment-387031 Tue, 15 Mar 2016 23:02:32 +0000 http://www.therugbyblog.com/?p=41396#comment-387031 I’m relieved to find that there’s someone left on here who hasn’t completely taken leave of his senses over this. “Sanctimonious hand wringers and the professionally offended” is a perfect description of the total collapse in our collective common sense.

People need to remember that offence is taken, not given. Samson Lee was arguably taken aback, but that’s about it. He has stated that he did not find it offensive and Marler offered his apology at the earliest opportunity of his own volition.

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By: stroudoshttp://www.therugbyblog.com/marlers-citing-proves-disciplinary-process-is-still-broken#comment-387030 Tue, 15 Mar 2016 22:52:54 +0000 http://www.therugbyblog.com/?p=41396#comment-387030 Right. Here’s my summary of the three incidents, taken with no reference to each other:

1. “Gypsygate” – literally the LEAST offensive thing I’ve heard to be taken so seriously. I suspect a lot of people are commenting on this without having even seen the footage. On this clip – http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2016/03/13/joe-marler-apologises-for-gypsy-boy-comment/ – it’s completely clear that he’s just trying to wind the bloke up a bit and, by the way, he also did a very effective job of getting Lee to stop manhandling his captain. Racist? Do me a favour.

2. Forearm smash by Marler, (footage also available on that Telegraph link above) – come on, it’s hardly a “smash” is it?? Jesus wept. However, it is foul play and an unnecessary cheapshot. Not happy about it, but this sort of sly dig happens any number of times during a match. This is basically a yellow card offence; as such, it should be dealt with the same as the Haskell neck roll.

3. Francis “contact with the eyes or eye area” – let’s remember this is the actual wording of the offence. Intent to gouge or poke fingers into the eye is not part of the law. By the letter of the law and precedent set by other similar sanctions, eight weeks seems a bit lenient to me. Having said that, my impression at the time was that the eye contact was accidental – looked to me like he was trying to execute a slapstick nose-tweak! – but, as we know, intent or otherwise is irrelevant.

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