Comments on: New Zealand v England second test: 5 things we learned

By: Jimbo

Jimbo — Sat, 21 Jun 2014 05:07:17 +0000

Reading the above posts/views, makes feel great that for the first time English critics/fans actually have something to argue about in just about every position on the park. I don’t think that we could have had this much strength in depth 12-18 months before we won the world cup in Australia. And, to be honest if it was not for golden bollocks JW we would not have won it.
Now, however we have some number 10’s that could take the field and in their own way really put pressure on defending teams. I really want to see Burns do well today (After his last season he was dire, and has to pull a good shift this morning, and for the Tigers in September or i think he will be out), but, we have Ford to come through, and this coming season will really see if he can force his way into the 10 shirt, Cips is really a great 10, and I want to see him for at least 20 mins this morning.
I love this “centre” issue we are having….that we have so many is great
Laws will tear NZ apart this morning, His arms look like they will spoil everything black, if he controls his emotions he will be a headache.
Robshaw reminds me Hill when he played for England as the man who does so much and gets little credit, it is still a disgrace he did not make the Lions tour
Yarde is brilliant, my son who fancies himself as a prop (aged 13), now wants to support Quinns and become a winger like Yarde!……he will do well there and today secure his place in the England team
I worry about Brown, as I think he is not fit, and this may be one game to many, and should not play, he needs to get his hamstring/leg? fit again, as he lost his sharpness that to me was evident in that last game, I stick Foden/Goode in.
Getting back to the front row….we now have props that will tear their opposite number apart, and then have equally good ones to come on, if any get injured there are more on the shelf. Youngs has to sort out his throwing, or Hartley will always be first choice, and Ward is getting better by the day
England to win by 7 …..or we will get hammered!

By: DanD

DanD — Fri, 20 Jun 2014 06:23:06 +0000

Some may say it’s tricky to play your own role when you’re expending so much energy on other peoples.

By: stu

stu — Thu, 19 Jun 2014 20:09:39 +0000

Interesting stats but for me the fundamental point is he hasn’t performed the role he was there for.

I think now is the time to establish partnerships in readiness for RWC and don’t think that 36 has shown enough to be the undisputed 12, therefore give the opportunity to eastmond or burrell to stake a claim. Eastmond for me has the distribution and running threat to become a real asset to the side.

By: Tom

Tom — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 16:41:20 +0000

That’s some pretty good analysis you’ve made there highlighting the workload on Twelvetree’s shoulders.
I stand by the man and think he should get the chance to see what he can do inside Tuilagi, who is hands down our best 13. When the players immediately inside and outside of you have poor games, it’s hard to have a stormer yourself when you’re trying to force things to make up for their mistakes.
The backline for test 3 is most likely going to have Burns, Twelvetrees and Tuilagi at 10, 12 and 13. If the former and latter play as well as they did in Eden park, Twelvetrees will have to perform to keep his place.

By: Jacob

Jacob — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 14:43:57 +0000

I agree that Cole had a couple bad days at the scrum – but I still think he is ahead of Wilson be quite some distance. Cole is still a brilliant scrummager. Can we also remember his neck injury was quite long standing or there is a good chance that was affecting him?

By: Pablito

Pablito — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 14:33:53 +0000

The only downside with Cole (and its quite a big one) is that his scrummaging wasn’t up to scratch before his time off. There was much talk of starting Wilson to shore up the scrum

It therefore becomes a question of what you want your props to do. First and foremost, I want them to scrum and if they are great at nicking ball, well that’s a nice bonus.

Unless Cole comes back and shows that his technique has improved and that under the new laws he can be a force in the scrum then I think Wilson remains slightly ahead of him.

2 good options to have though. I also think Thomas isn’t as mediocre as he’s made out to be and Sinckler and Brookes are great prospects – so at least we are looking more stable at tighthead

By: Jacob

Jacob — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 14:15:16 +0000

Whilst Marler hasn’t put himself over and above Corbs, I would say he has closed the gap far more than anyone has on Dan Cole. Cole for me is still miles ahead of Wilson. He hits rucks like a back row players in the loose, and is also really strong at jackling. I don’t think Wilson can lay claim to that.

Marler has been brilliant all season. For Corbs to come back in, he needs to start next season really well, or SL won’t drop Marler – he’s played too well for that.

On Trinder, I don’t think he was ever that close to starting was he? Tomkins obviously played, and then Burrell was next choice. Obviously there is Tuilagi and Barritt ahead of him as well. I don’t think Trinder has moved in the pecking order at all – so hardly negative for him.

By: Blub

Blub — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 13:59:02 +0000

Dan, None of the Looseheads have shown they are better than Corbisiero.

Ward came out as first choice at Harlequins, and many people’s bet/choice for a match day position. Ward has clearly edged ahead of him in the England hierarchy, and he wasn’t great when he came on yesterday.

So, being selected to tour, as you sagely imply is definitely a positive, but that wasn’t my point.

Trinder was a very real starting possibility back in the autumn, so like Ward in a very congested position (Devoto, Joseph, Allen all fringe challengers) can be pleased with the fact that he toured, but has not really enhanced his cause.

Cole is good in the loose, but I am not sure that he is the first pick at 3 anymore.

By: Jonny

Jonny — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 13:38:38 +0000

I like the idea of that, but it’s probably something that takes a couple of seasons to really get sorted. The Smith try for NZ came from Tuilagi leaving his wing when England were in possession, and no back being out wide to cover for him.

At international level, a massive % of the tries scored come from simple mismatches, continually swapping players to different positions greatly increases the chance of something like that happening.

By: Jacob

Jacob — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 13:34:34 +0000

I really don’t think that is anywhere near the case. Tuilagi, whilst being big, is actually not a great defender. His gets stuck on his heels quite often, and can misjudge tackles as he goes for the big hit.

It really makes no sense to me that Tuilagi would be put anywhere for his defensive qualities.

I can’t why we would put Eastmond on the wing during our own ball? We have wingers that will be much better off our own ball than Eastmond. Yes Eastmond has quite feet and could cover wing – but his main attributes are suited to playing in the centre. He distributes well and uses his feet to fix defenders and put people in holes. Defending the 13 channel is also a really tough job – Eastmond can not do that.

By: James

James — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 12:50:04 +0000

I think we may have missed the point. I feel the real reason to play MT on the wing was to stop Savea. We missed MT’s tackling in the centre and his line breaks through the middle. But I thought defensively he did ok.

So let me threw this one out 3rd test we go 12T/MT and whack KE on the wing, we switch MT/KE throughout the game giving the ABs something to think. MT plays 13 on our ball, and 14 on theirs?

By: Benjit

Benjit — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 12:17:33 +0000

Re the Youngs point, I would say he still the most explosive option in the loose BUT has to be able to the day job too. I think for that reason SL will still see him as a bench option in the same way that Mako is usually on the bench for either Corbs or Marler but when all three are fit Marler drops out completely.