Farce just seems to follow the RFU around at the moment, doesn’t it? From handing new contracts to Lancaster and his coaching team just before the most catastrophic World Cup in their history, to (likely) being taken to court over their courting of Steve Borthwick, it has been a chain of events of which any self-respecting comedy writer would be proud.
CEO Ian Ritchie has emerged from most of this surprisingly unscathed. By handing Lancaster et al new contracts at such a risky time, he intrinsically linked himself to their coaching regime. And yet somehow he was allowed to sit on the review board, his role at the RFU never in any doubt.
The latest twist in this tale saw England announce yesterday that Borthwick had signed on as forwards coach, only for Bristol to turn around and say that nothing had been agreed between the union and the club. They claim a suitable compensation agreement had not been reached, and are willing to take the RFU to employment court to prove it if necessary.
If Ritchie has got a lot wrong in recent times, his refusal to pander to Bristol’s ridiculous demands over Borthwick is something I actually agree with. It seems the West Country club, who are backed by billionaire Steve Lansdown, are holding out for an astronomical fee (in the millions) in compensation for the RFU pinching Borthwick just two months into his year-and-a-half contract, that is believed to be worth in the region of £250,000.
So immediately the demand for millions of pounds of compensation seems ridiculous. Lansdown’s argument is that Borthwick leaving could cost them promotion to the Premiership this year, and that in turn would hit their revenue. But a closer look at the facts makes that argument look about as solid as a sandcastle.
For starters, Bristol have failed to win promotion for the past two seasons, despite assembling easily the most expensive squad in the league, first losing out to London Welsh and then Worcester across the two-legged final.
Secondly, and more pertinently, their results this season with Borthwick involved do not compare favourably to the last two years. They have lost twice at home already, to Bedford and Doncaster, and only hold a two point lead at the top of the table over the latter, a club who finished last season in ninth. Last year, they lost just one game in the league all season.
Now Borthwick himself is clearly not solely responsible for any of this, and Bristol remain heavy favourites to top the league this year and win promotion, but to argue that the man himself is that important to their promotion push is simply ludicrous.
So, the RFU’s stance (they are apparently willing to dig their heels in and see Bristol in court) is entirely understandable. Borthwick’s stock as a young coach is higher than most and his collaboration with Eddie Jones at Japan was fruitful, to say the least. He is the right man to coach England’s forwards, and the RFU are absolutely right to go for him. They have offered what sounds like a reasonable compensation package, and for Bristol to stand in Borthwick’s way does not reflect particularly well on them.
Elsewhere, it would appear that Alex King will be brought on as attacking skills coach, the role he currently fills at Northampton and the one previously filled by Mike Catt for England. Catt’s job within the set-up was never really clear – by all accounts he had little influence over selection, and his now infamous bust-up with Danny Cipriani made him unlikely to carry on.
It will be intriguing to see where King sits in Jones’s set up, especially given that the Australian himself is an accomplished attacking coach. It also should be noted how blunt Northampton’s attacking game has looked in the early stages of this season – although King should take a lot of credit for how good it has been in general in the past year or so.
By the sounds of things, Jim Mallinder isn’t particularly happy with the manner in which the RFU have courted King either – namely, going to the player himself rather than having discussions with the club first. Mallinder, though, recognises what an opportunity this is for King and will not stand in his way in the manner Bristol are with Borthwick.
One piece of the coaching jigsaw that everyone seems to agree on is Paul Gustard’s appointment as defence coach. Saracens’ rise from also-rans to perennial title contenders has been built on their famous ‘wolf-pack’ defence, and Gustard will be tasked with similarly shoring up a defence that looked leaky during the World Cup.
So Jones’s reign has begun with visa problems and a potential court case. It is far from ideal and is just the latest bump in the road during Ian Ritchie’s tenure at the top of the RFU – but Borthwick is absolutely the right man to come into the England coaching set-up now, and Bristol will ultimately just have to accept that.
By Jamie Hosie
Follow Jamie on Twitter: @jhosie43
Photo by: Patrick Khachfe / Onside Images
This is the growing problem of big egoed sugar daddies entering the sport. This is turning rugby into wendyball at a rate of knots. Surely with a world cup winning forwards coach as their head coach surely Borthwick’s departure can be better covered than other positions.
Bristol may find it harder to attract aspiring coaches if they are going to see their opportunities blocked.
Yes this is an exceptional situation, to lose a coach after a few months, but how telling that a foreign club made less of a fuss losing their head coach after a few weeks! Surely the club’s recognise that this is a truly exceptional situation. Dumped out of our own world cup at the group stages, 6n around the corner, time is of the essence. How ironic that a club I have often criticised, Saracens, have been the most accommodating and mature over this (especially after how they were treated over Farrell’s appointment).
Saints have been equally mature about the courting of King merely stating that the method of approaching King was wrong but saying they would never stand in the way of King or England.
The biggest Irony of all is that Robinson himself was a premiership coach himself at Bath before being appointed as Englands Forwards coach under SCW and yet is quick to try and block Borthwick from following the same path his own career took
I hope Bristol stay down with an attitude like that there are already enough egos in the premiership.
I have nothing but contempt for Robinson who had long since tarnished his world cup record.
A very bitter man who despite promising to step aside if not good enough for the England top job, then allowed his entire coaching team to take the fall for his inadequacies then clung on for a payoff despite missing all his targets. Then as Scotland coach poached a young England prospect for Scotland.
I’d even go as far to say that his world cup impact as fwds coach was limited. England’s fwds play seemed to be on the decline once Mitchell left. Bristol are welcome to him.
As a Saracens fan I absolutely concur with all said by Benjit (I’m hoping the RFU may not have noticed Alex Sanderson yet either, but then if he was picked up it wouldn’t be a suprize and again Sarries wouldn’t stand in the way.)
Having met Steve Lansdown on many occasions I can say he is a genuine bloke with the best intentions of Bristol sport at heart. Everyone is playing a game at the moment which will undoubtedly end up with a figure somewhere in the middle.
What is plainly obvious though is the RFU are still a bunch of amateurs who run amateur rugby well but, despite the golden opportunities handed them, manage to screw the pro game up royally. Bit like the WRU with less chins and more posh accents.
Strange one – I guess in Bristol weren’t willing to play ball at all, then the RFU weren’t left with much choice but to go public with the appointment and let the chips fall where they may.
On King – not convinced by that. They’re a team that have played with a Dickson/Myler/Burrell partnership for much of his tenor, hardly an inspiring selection and not one that that ever looked dangerous in attack regularly.
Then again, Gustard has publicly stated his belief that Barritt is the best 12 in England so let’s hope he has no say in our backs selection.
King inherited those players to be fair and turned them from ordinary into the the core of a backline that won the league a couple of seasons ago and scored far more tries than any other in the premiership last season. This season isn’t great but I think we have more problems up front and are getting less ball than previously
Agree he’s done a decent job, but I don’t think it is anything too outstanding. From what I’ve seen, the Saints pack have been on top most weeks. Certainly at scrum time, Brookes has been pulverising everyone in his way.
I just don’t think that many Saints backs are some of the most exciting around. Wasps and Bath are probably the two that play the most expansive style of play in the Premiership.
I draw the opposite conclusion from Dickson/Myler/Burrell and King. Got to be honest, I think he did wonders with very average players. Prior to King’s arrival I would never have thought Dickson or Myler were future England players – and we can argue about whether they were ever good enough in an England shirt, but the point is he got them playing well enough to be given a chance. Same with Burrell. Hardly a world-class player when Saints signed him.
Surely doing all that with lesser players than people like Daly, Ford, Joseph, Eastmond etc is a mark of his coaching abilities?
That’s definitely a good way to look at it Henry – am feeling slightly more positive about him now!
Saints backs just don’t get me too excited so I thought it was a strange one at first. That being said, your logic works!
Last two season AP tries scored / conceded
NS 147/72
SA 138/79
WA 125/110
BA 120/81
EX 110/97
LE 96/80
Yes you can argue that its based on forwards domination but the same is true for almost any team.
Don’t necessarily think it is accurate to assume tries means that back play was impressive.
If I think about teams that have exciting backs and would draw admirers from neutrals, I can’t imagine Saints are that high on the list.
I disagree
14/15 season https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh_fxBttTOs
Not going to lie – actually think that helped my point.
First try isn’t great, scrappy before a decent individual break for Pisi followed by a brutish finish from North. Nothing suggesting genius back play.
Second try has three backs taking the ball standing still and shipping it on – which I’m pretty sure most were taught not to do age 12!
Third one is a lovely try!
Forth is a break from a restart against a terrible Treviso defense that was all over the place – nothing suggesting cohesive back play there.
There are loads of tries there but you get the point. Don’t exactly think Saints have a free flowing back line on regular occasions.
The last try against Bath is corker! As an aside, does anyone think Haywood has an outside chance of an England place?
We’re all talking about King and the backs, but a good attack coach should be working with the whole team as an attacking force? If we want to compete with the SH teams, we have to get forwards and backs attacking together in cohesion. It works at club level in the Premiership, and it works for NZ, SA, AUS and ARG (and Japan!!).
My hope is that Jones & Co. can get the whole team working as an attacking/defending unit. What we saw under SL (more often than not), was a lack of cohesion between forwards and backs. That maybe down to leadership, selection, or how they wanted to play. But I’m sure Jones will play a very different game.
For me the fact Gustard will be defense coach is the biggest reason to think Robshaw will be retained in the first fifteen, just at 6 rather than 7. Saracens under Gustard have always preferred to have two of three dedicated tacklers (not big, but reliably effective).
On that metric Robshaw is back in contention, despite his questionable leadership he is always near top of the tackle stats and his recent performances for Quinns have been great.
I can also see Gustard relishing the idea of working with Lawes – a player who I reckon he can improve even further.
As long as Gustard isn’t tied to Barritt for his defensive systems.
Even if he is, I hope (and suspect) that’s one selection decision that Eddie will be making himself.
What a load of rubbish. As a lifelong Bristol and England fan, I think it’s pretty clear to anyone with any understanding of the modern game that it is the RFU who are in the wrong on this one.
Bristol Rugby is run as a business. We are 20 years into the professional era now, so references to “big egoed sugar daddies” and suchlike are just irrelevant. Every club that has succeeded at the top level for decades has had some kind of financial backing – or maybe Bristol don’t deserve it because they are “just” a Championship side?
As a business, they have a right to protect their investments. The key phrase here is “nothing had been agreed”. If the RFU wanted Borthwick that much, they should have negotiated and signed a deal behind closed doors, not made some ridiculous headline-grabbing announcement that is damaging to the reputations of everyone involved. As for the “millions” you refer to, surely any such figure (assuming you didn’t just make it up) is designed to be the beginning of negotiations, and not an absolute demand? But the RFU has now put Bristol in an impossible position, forcing THEM to “dig their heels in” to avoid being treated like doormats.
Re. Promotion, you waste a number of paragraphs trying to build an argument that Bristol are not guaranteed promotion, before admitting they are firm favourites – for a reason. There is no Worcester, Exeter or Newcastle to beat this season, and Welsh are a shadow of the team they once were after a disastrous season in the Premiership (no disrespect intended). This is Bristol’s best chance of promotion probably since they were relegated, and they should be allowed every opportunity to pursue that.
Bristol have fed more than their fair share of talent into the England pool over the last few decades though a very well established youth set-up, and despite their newfound wealth they haven’t felt the need to buy in dozens of overseas players like other sides (a few Pacific Islanders and Welsh has-beens notwithstanding!) And I can fairly safely guarantee when they do get promoted they won’t be breaching the salary cap.
I wonder if this would have been treated differently if the RFU had used such tactics to poach another international coach, say Warren Gatland? (Yes this is a reference to the Welsh bias on this blog, which I’ve become comfortable with). But the fact of the matter is the situation would be exactly the same.
What is the problem with stating that Bristol are favourites but are not guaranteed? It’s sport; no favourite is ever guaranteed to be promoted. In fact, Bristol have been favourites two years in a row and have faltered.
On the whole debacle; from reports it looks as though Bristol simply weren’t willing to play ball at all. Keep in mind that Bortwhick was perfectly happy to come out and say he is now an England coach too – hardly seems as though Bristol have treated him well.
The sugar daddy reference is not an attack; it is just that, a reference. The point is, with an investor with (relatively) limitless funds, they can be stubborn and put themselves before other individuals due to the power they believe they have.
This is rugby, not football. National federations shouldn’t be strong armed by clubs. Saracens and Saints have shown the way to act in this scenario, and Bristol have come out of it looking like amateurs.
Let me respond paragraph by paragraph
1. Yes the RFU approach has been all wrong to all appointments but only one club out of three has thrown their toys out the pram
2. Its not about big egoed sugar daddies its about the attitude of Robinson et al
3. It is Bristol who should be doing things behind closed door. Compensation was always going to happen but this media outburst is part of Bristols negotiation strategy and is a low blow. Are England supposed to keep it hush hush who the new England coach is until the financial deal has been settled which will take weeks
4. Fair point I believe its called a balanced arguement to present both sides of the story
5. Current squad has 19 overseas vs 21 Eng qualified is more than the majority of current Prem side and i can’t remember the last time a product of the Bristol academy pulled on an England shirt
6. Eddie Jones was poached from Stormers in a similar fashion and there was disgruntlement and a fee was negotiated and settled, without the need for legal intervention
The Welsh bias on this blog? Ha ha, good one. I mean, I assume you’re joking? I’m not claiming there’s an English bias, but I am certainly certain that there is no record of Welsh bias.
Welsh has beens? – Matthew Morgan, Gareth Maule are certainly not.
Don’t buy dozens of overseas players? A quick look at their official squad of 40 shows 19 non-English qual’d players. I’d say that constitutes a lot out of 40.
I agree with some of what you say (why should the RFU get priority here in a system where the RFU do not have any say in the Prem?) but you went off on one a bit at the end.
1,2,3: The RFU has not announced that Alex King or Paul Gustard are definitively joining England Rugby – merely that they are “interested”, “in talks” etc. Therefore the Saints/Sarries reaction is not comparable. To officially announce Borthwick is the new forwards coach before a deal has been struck with his club is disrespectful.
4: Yes fair debate, but the implication that Borthwick is not important to Bristol’s push for promotion, because, y’know, they’ll just mess it up again har har is pretty offensive.
5: Fair point well made, don’t have time to check all those stats. Keep an eye on Ellis Genge :-)
But my point is that to compare Bristol to the kind of big money outfits we have in the Premiership is pretty unfair when you look at the way some of the top teams conduct themselves.
6: Just because the RFU has done it before it doesn’t make it right. And there’s been no legal intervention yet – just the threat of it (from both sides).
I think we all know that Borthwick will be England forwards coach before the New Year, but the way the RFU have handled it is shameful.
1,2,3 My point was that Bristol were kicking up a stink before it was announced unlike Sarries and Saints and I agreed above that the RFU’s approach to recruiting has been poor on all fronts however once Borthwick agreed to the role it is not surprising that an announcement was made seeing as the media were all over it anyway. As I said the compensation negotiations will drag out to the new year and the RFU couldn’t wait until then or they get accused of inaction.
4. You are taking offence at something that simply isn’t there. All they are saying is that the basis of the settlement sum being in the millions rather than the value of the contract (250k) is that Borthwick leaving will stop them getting promoted. A supposition that cannot be proved and isn’t even backed up by recent results. what if the RFU pays them millions and they get promoted anyway do they then need to refund the difference?
5. Research shows that Dave Attwood came through the Bristol academy and Ellis Genge has looked good for the U20’s
6. The point being that a settlement was reached without all the mud slinging previously
If you want someone who is currently under contract, you have to go to the club/company that hold the contract and negotiate. It is not Bristol’s job to win the World Cup, they must focus on getting up and staying up. They will need significant compensation to bring in someone with the right level of expertise to take the place of someone the RFU are openly saying is among the best in the country.
As I foretold way back in early October, the English RWC 2015 F++k-up and its eagerly awaited fallout was going to start getting nasty sooner rather than later.
We now have one lot of fans here siding with the RFU and another bunch with Bristol.
Bicker away….bicker away and do so in the full knowledge that the rest of the rugby World is still having a really good laugh at all of this and we will continue to do so.
I suspect the tenor has not finished singing the 2nd verse of ‘Saper Bramate’ and it will be a while before the fat lady starts to clear her throat.
Money has a habit of talking Enoch! Contrary to your all too obvious sentiments the RFU will get their man! The millions from the WC (the most profitable ever) will see to that!
My predictions for England: a meteoric ‘onward and upwards’ under one of the best international coaches around (another example of getting your man!)
That will make it 2 out of 2 by my reckoning!
6N bring it on!
Alex,
RWC 2015 was such a success financially for the RFU as shown by the laughable sight of the RWC 2015 England gear being given away by the RFU’s own shop the day after the Australia game at 50% off!
What is point of having all this cash when your team is a shambles and your captain has been publically criticised during the RWC by the very man who has now been appointed as Head Coach?
What did the millions upon millions spent by the RFU since 2011 actually lead to?
For the era 2012-2015 the least said the better by any English fan.
Personally am in neither camp. Can’t see either side have done this well. RFU continue to make a hash of appointments and approaches. Tend to agree with Enoch on this one (shock horror) we are being laughed at once again, although being Welsh and talking about disastrous administration is taking a risk given the WRU’s ability to cock things up (won’t mention Faletau at this stage). However it will sort itself out and we will end up with an improved coaching team, so looking forward to that. Bristol just being greedy. If you’ve ever been an employer, you know that when someone decides to go, you can’t keep them. So poor always round really. Sigh.
“You know that guy you recently spent a lot of money to recruit, after also investing a lot of time and effort on a charm offensive to persuade him to join your organisation? The one you identified many months ago as having the potential to have a massive impact on your organisation’s future success, both immediately and in the longer term? The bloke who would take ownership of a major area of your business, perhaps even the area that you see as the most strategically significant in terms of laying a foundation for everyone in your business to build on. Someone who you rated so highly that you got him to sign an 18-month contract, because you were acutely aware that you’re not the only organisation that has noticed his qualities and you specifically wanted to protect your business against the threat of someone trying to poach him?
Well, I am poaching him and here’s a cheque. Oh, that’s nowhere near the amount of compensation that you believe would be suitable? Tough tits mate, take it or leave it. I’m having your major strategic asset and there’s nothing you can do about it. Partly because I’ve already told everyone in our industry sector that I’m having him and that any attempts by you to protect your interests and get a fair price are not only a sign of your individual greed, but of your toxic, corrosive influence on our entire industry.”
Personally, I’m delighted that the RFU are doing all they can to get Borthwick into the England set-up, I hope it happens and I wish Borthwick every success in that new role. But I fail to understand why (nearly) everyone seems to think his current employer should willingly lube up and present themselves on all fours.
Because foolishly we believe that these should not be rival organisations but different subsidiaries of the same parent organisation
Because foolishly we believe that the organisations prime objective should be to drive success at the highest level i.e. international. Should one of their other worker employees be asked to do work for the parent organisation they would be over the moon but ultimately for selfish reasons as that assets value would increase
However ultimately you are right. The rugby industry is not as harmonious as we the investors would like
Spot on Leon but this is just the ugly side of what most people in England want. England wants strong club sides, with financial might that can challenge in Europe. I’ll admit this is great, I’m certainly jealous. Unfortunately you don’t get this with union own or controlled (even partially) clubs because to get it you need strong external investment and people won’t put another organisation’s success above their own. Certainly the clubs realise that a strong Eng is good for them but only to a certain extent – once the RFU starts acting big then the real cost of a strong club game is exposed – the Eng setup comes second.
I’m not sure if this is good or bad for England. A strong club setup should help produce a strong Eng setup. Conversely the greater union control in Wal/Aus/NZ/Ire/etc. has definitely helped those countries punch above their weight. Many point to the Top 14s power as a part reason for France’s international decline.
No simple answers but this sort of thing is an inevitable side effect of relying on rich investors to fund the game.
Some really good points made here (mainly because people are being objective and not taking it as personally as me!) But if the RFU genuinely wants to improve relationships with the clubs (now that central contracts are apparently out of the question), then underhanded nonsense like this is hardly the way to go. Whatever people may think of Lansdown, Robinson etc., the RFU cannot expect to be treated with respect by the clubs (and the money behind the clubs) when they act like this. It makes everyone look bad, and is bad for English – and England – rugby.
Concerning International quality, I don’t know what the answer is, and there doesn’t seem to be a compromise that wouldn’t risk damaging the strong club system. I think France is an extreme example, and hopefully things don’t get that bad in England (constant player rebellions etc.) The wage cap is one thing that seems to be holding back the tide (and encouraging youth set-ups etc.) But unfortunately the RFU seems to now be viewing that as largely optional :-(