As two teams of intrepid explorers get set to travel to the North Pole for the first ever game of rugby there in the Arctic Challenge, Jamie Hosie chatted to Wooden Spoon ambassador Phil Vickery about the challenge, as well as England’s World Cup chances and why the scrum needs to be part of the future of the game.

JH: Hi Phil, first of all, tell me a bit about Wooden Spoon’s Artic Challenge, that you’re supporting at the moment.

PV: We’re going for the world record, for the first ever game of rugby to be played at the magnetic North Pole. It’s a big deal, and it’s going to be bloody difficult for the guys that are going! We’ve never done anything like this before at the Wooden Spoon, but it’s a great way to raise the profile of the good work that we do.

JH: So it’s Tim Stimpson and Ollie Phillips captaining the two teams – you didn’t fancy making the trip yourself?

PV: I don’t think I’d physically be able to do it! I’m seized up enough as it is, let alone when it gets really cold. The six spinal operations I’ve had probably wouldn’t go down so well up there in the Arctic.

JH: On to rugby matters now – it was a mixed autumn for England. They were close to beating the top two in the world – why do you think they’re still not quite actually winning these games?

PV: Success doesn’t happen overnight; everyone seems to think there’s a magic switch but there isn’t. I’ve been fortunate enough to be part of some very successful teams, but I was also part of them when they weren’t so successful. It’s the same as anything in life – you can make big strides very quickly when you’re building something new, and I think Stuart [Lancaster] did that very quickly, but then the higher up the ladder you go, you’ve got to work twice as hard for smaller increments.

Why are the All Blacks the best team in the world? The only difference for me is that their drop-off, when they don’t perform at their highest level, is minimal. They perform at higher levels for longer periods of time. The reality for this England team is that when they drop-off, their performance dips down just that little bit too much. But they’re not far away.

JH: You were a member of the 2003 World Cup winning team, a side who also went unbeaten the year previously in the autumn. Do you think, when the World Cup came around, those victories were important? And do you think it’ll matter that this England team lost?

PV: You just can’t compare the two – that was a settled team. Yes we went unbeaten, but that only made a difference because we then didn’t lose. You can’t rely on things from the past. When you analyse the way we played at the 2003 World Cup, we didn’t actually play particularly well, we were just difficult to beat. We were a belligerent, hard-nosed group of players.

I look at England, and a few other teams, and they can beat anyone on their day. You look at 2007 – I captained England to the final, but we were awful in the group stages and that team was written off. And the run-up to that was the complete polar opposite to what happened in 2003. When you strip it away it’s 15 guys against 15 guys on a rugby pitch – who wants it the most?

JH: Let’s focus on your area of expertise: the props. Dan Cole’s been away for a while, but how impressed have you been with Davey Wilson, and also Kieran Brookes who, by all accounts, had a fantastic autumn?

PV: Dave’s done a good job – he’s a big, powerful man – but I think what Kieran’s done has been brilliant. England need that strength in depth at tighthead, so it’s great to see Dan Cole coming back too. Credit to all the clubs and coaches, because we’ve got real depth now and it’s exciting, because you do need to share the workload.

What drives success, for me, is that competition for places. When everyone’s fighting for that spot, that’s what drives standards. You need people champing at your heels – I had Julian White and believe me, Julian’s not the sort of bloke you want to fall out with.

JH: It’s obviously a key area, so it’s good to see England building depth there. On that note, given that these days results can often hinge on a referee’s interpretation of the scrum, do you feel it is being officiated properly? Can anyone who hasn’t experienced the front row truly understand it properly?

PV: It’s always easy to blame the referee. They get a lot of stick – a lot of the time for good reason, because they make bad decisions – but I’m just of the belief that we’ve got to keep the scrummage in the game. At the same time we can’t let it drive those who don’t really understand it away.

If we’ve got serious ambitions to grow the game, we’ve got to keep that personal, eye-to-eye, blood-sweat-and-tears scrummaging contest in it. But we’ve got to make sure people watching on tv aren’t thinking “why on earth am I watching this?” If you’ve got positive coaches teaching positive players in a positive manner, 99 times out of 100 you get a positive outcome at the scrum.

JH: But do you think teams are really committed to that? Do you not think there are ways of pulling the wool over the referee’s eyes if you know you don’t have a good scrummage?

PV: It’s like any sport – if there is an advantage to be gained, whether legal or illegal, as a professional you will always look to exploit the potential for an easy gain. It’s the same at the line-out and the ruck, so let’s not get too obssessed about the scrum. When it works, it works brilliantly.

JH: Cheers Phil, thanks for the chat.

PV: No worries at all.

Phil Vickery is the lead ambassador for Wooden Spoon, the children’s charity of rugby. Next April, Wooden Spoon ambassadors and former Rugby Union Internationals Tim Stimpson and Ollie Phillips will lead two teams on a pioneering expedition to the Magnetic North Pole. Find out more about this world record attempt at arcticrugbychallenge.org.