Rate the match: England v Australia

Rate the match between England and Australia, and leave your thoughts on the game in the comments section below.

Rate the match: England v Australia

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64 thoughts on “Rate the match: England v Australia

  1. Ugh. Better side won, and that’s about it. No-one should fear these two sides.

    If someone can show me a more blatant example of obstruction than that for Farrell’s try, I’ll be grateful.

    Brown looks good. Keep him.

    1. Brown and B. Vunipola were the only stand outs of international standard rugby showing in the England side today.

      Agree on obstruction, but it’s close. Much more blatant error was Brown clearly being over the line bringing the ball back in.

  2. Who voted 10? Come on, own up.

    Dull, stuttering performance for both sides. Basic rugby skills lacking: Passing was all over the place, dropped balls across the park, barely anyone picked challenging lines, offside was rampant.

    Farrell and Dickson should have been dragged off early in the second half. Farrell’s only redeeming moment was a (possibly illegal, could be controversial) try as part of a generally poor performance. Backs woke up the moment Youngs came onto the pitch. Meanwhile his brother’s lineouts were appalling.

    Australia were the Australia of the early Rugby Championship instead of the brilliance we saw parts of against New Zealand recently. Barely anything of note across the match. Folau still looks very dangerous, Genia surprisingly didn’t. Mowen was a terrible captaincy call.

  3. Disappointing performance from England. Despite the win there appears to be a lack of self belief in the team, or perhaps it’s a lack of aggressiveness.

    Those calling 12T better than Barrett are dreaming. Lawes, while lively is not a test 5. Dickinson in no ways is better than Youngs and Youngs should always start. Yarde looked completely out of his league.

    On the plus side Brown owned the 15 shirt, Tomkins looked promising and BV passed his first test.

    1. Tomkin’s?….Tomkin’s who? Mr f*cking anonymous all match. Oh except for a cringe worthy knock on.

      Lawes was his usual clumsy self, spilling lineout ball.

      Yards good in attack but woefully caught out of position in defence.

      The positives were England’s forward domination which saved the day. Their composure and self belief to come from behind and take a win without panicking were admirable.

      No doubt Farrell will get some stick from IDIOTS, but him, Young’s and Brown were the only backs worth having on the field at the end of the day.

  4. Thought it was looking bleak at 6-13, really pleased with a comeback win. Hopefully we’ll see some fluency next week.

  5. Really disappointed with 12t. Totally effed up his big chance. Not usually a bin them type of a person but a message has to be sent that this is not good enough and start Burrell next week. Likewise Ashton has to go. How many mediocre performances will it take. Both wings were a liability in defence but at least Yarde showed some promise in attack maybe Wade could do likewise.

  6. Good result today, but the performance in the first half was below par. Saying that, if Farrell had kicked those penalties we would have been sitting pretty. I think the backrow had a great game, nullified Australia. Robshaw and Wood are so tenacious and hard working for the team. Billy Vunipola showed that he can cause International teams a real headache. With Tuilagi coming back at 13 when he is fit, England will have two lethal ball carriers who will get us over the game line every time.

    Locks looked a bit lightweight, but both Lawes and Launchbury were good around the park though. That being said we really miss Parling. Fingers crossed he is back for the next test!

    I think Dylan Hartley should probably get the nod at hooker for the next game. We improved with him on the pitch and he is another of the fearcily competitive players that I personally think give England an edge. In the same bracket I would put Robshaw, Wood, Farrell and Brown. They all bring an intensity to the team.

    Twelvetrees was pretty disappointing. Sure he will come back stronger for it though.

  7. To add to this though, I would have Burrell starting next week. He is the form 12 in the Premiership and I doubt you’ll see anyone trample over him for a try!

  8. I hope England play like this in the home internationals Wales will enjoy the meeting as good as last years.

  9. I hope England play like this in the home internationals Wales will enjoy the meeting as good as last years.

    1. Wow. Good comment Stephen!

      Perhaps Wales will manage to beat the Aussies this year. That would be a nice surprise for you, wouldn’t it!

      1. “Nice surprise” wouldn’t cover it. I’d be ecstatic. As poor as the match was on Sat (Eng were the least poor team) I wish it was us (Wales) sitting here on Mon morning with a “well, it was crap, but we beat Aus” statement we could trot out. I’d bite my left arm off to be able to say that.

        I predict that by the time they get to us Aus could well be on a string of losses so will pull out some amazing performance that leaves us winless this autumn, again.

        Objectively though there is some truth in What Stephen is saying. Objectively that should be a great match for Wales to have watched – two world cup group rivals, one of them at home, putting in a performance like that should give us confidence that we can beat them both. Confidence mind, I’m not getting arrogant here and expecting us to brush them aside. Just saying that if we can’t have the balls to have some confidence given last March, the Welsh players in the Lions and now this Aus/Eng game, then we’re just being a bit gutless really. However, we’ve been here so many times before that there is no confidence, just a gnawing apprehension as we move further into the season….

  10. Too many pink ladies on here so let’s redress the balance. Poor performance but comfortable win. When corbs and parling r fit,that’s a pretty impressive pack. Pleased for BV showed he’s good enough at this level,Tomkins too,industrious and solid,perfect barrit replacement. Yarde not there yet,Ashton exposed in defence as usual,outstanding from Brown,before test was 3rd choice for me. As in last few years biggest prob is 9/10 slow,clunky predictable,wish I had a suggestion for better! 12T for me not a test 12,ropey defence and only fires in gaps my gran could expose

  11. Would have given it a 9 for drama, but a 5 for performance so averaged out at 7! England looked really rusty. We’ll see what the next two weeks look like.

    Brown proved me wrong although he did turnover the ball running, but only the once that I spotted. Would still like to see Foden get a run out next week as I think he brings other players into the game better. Would give 12T another chance as we know he can play better, but not convinced the partnership with Tomkins worked as they are too similar. Would like to see Wade for Ashton next week. Pack went well apart from lineout. Shows how important Parling is. Would favour him and launchbury just. Youngs looked good off the bench, and brought more pace to our game. Shades it for next week for me.

    Anyway for all those moaning, we have just played one of the big 3 SH teams and won. It wasn’t brilliant, but they have had a long time together and this was our first run out of the season so we should get better. The aussies probably won’t! Yes we always want more, but got a win while not playing particularly well. I’ll take that as I thought that there was a great danger that we would lose the game before play started. So lets look forward to a better performance next week and hopefully another win.

    1. Oh yes and Hartley for Youngs. Hartley had a more solid setpiece. Youngs adds great dynamism from the bench.

      Still undecided about centres. Will mull that one. Not the right combination as stated above so I think one has to change. Not sure which one though.

      1. Dissapointed that many people are picking up on Hartley over Youngs. Ask a fan of any other team who they’d least like to face and it’s Hartley every time – he’s a moron but a very good rugby playing one. Now England might desist in this idea that Youngs is his equal which is bad news for the rest of us.

        Didn’t think the ref affected the result. Aus were woeful – clueless in attack in the second half and, really surprisingly for a SH team, bereft of ideas or skill in the backs. England good value for the result but it was a tedious game for a neutral. If I was an English fan though I would not give a stuff for the neutral. Eng 1 SH 0 so far, that’s all that matters. (Also it’s England’s 8th test victory from 9 – a fact expounded a fair bit on social media this weekend).

        The nature of the result is also interesting – apart from a few of the usual brain dead hacks most people are not repeating the “World Beaters!” headlines we saw in last years papers.

  12. Brown definitely the best player on the pitch today.

    Feel slightly smug…

    Would give tomkins another go, but would maybe try eastmond or Burrell in te 12 shirt

  13. Also thought we shaded it in the luck department today, but this happens and I’ve watched enough England games where it has gone the other way to remain philosophical on the matter of luck. Thought we were the better team though.

  14. Thought 12T was poor today, didn’t really bring the distribution he was supposedly in over burrell for – would be him in next week for me. Hartley and youngs added something from bench and should start next week IMO. Lawes was good today and would keep him and launch bury, thy have a week to confirm set piece and both add more around park than parling. Good win for first game against a big practiced team :-)

    1. Personally think Parling does a great deal of work round the park. However think we have 4 international quality locks in the squad which is useful.

  15. Yeah I agree but think lawes just showed that bit more aggression and has the potential to really affect a game in the loose.

  16. The performance today has given me a lot more confidence in this England side. I don’t say this because England had a great game. Because lets be honest todays performance was mediocre and most of they guys really weren’t firing on all cylinders. BUT at the end of the day we still beat one of the big three! And if we can do that while we’re not on top form ourselves then what are we capable of when we are???

    Pluses today were that the forwards looked really solid and can only get better with the return of Corb and Parling! The scrum worked well and we had good ball to play off out of all of our own scrums that I can remember. The lineout was shaky until Hartley came on and for that reason I think he should start over Youngs against Argentina.

    The backs misfired today I thought. Farrell had a shocking first half but showed amazing composure and maturity to get it back on track in the second half! Brown had an awesome game and thoroughly deserved his man of the match. I thought Yarde showed good potential so I hope Lancaster sticks with him for the time being. As for Ashton… He had a poor game yet again and Someone else should really be given an opportunity to show what they can do!

  17. Further mullings. Brown was good but was he really better than Folau? With the benefit of reflection, I’m not sure he was.

  18. Oh yes, and can Catt please teach the England players to put the ball in front of the player when passing, not throw it behind them. It stopped any momentum we had time and time again. This is the sort of thing we teach children to do. Pro players should do it automatically. I think I ought to mention running on to the ball at pace at this point as well – why can’t English teams do this? Come on Catt this has been a failing of England forever. Please resolve it.

  19. Well. Poor performance but a win so can’t complain too much. Especially given the way England fought back.


    – Brown was brilliant. Yes he was better than Folau, far better. One in the eye for all his detractors. He is a better all round full back than foden. Not dissimilar to Kearney at his best

    – Robshaw was superb. In fact the whole back row was v good

    – Yarde has some serious potential. Worth sticking with

    – 36 plays like a man with no confidence. What happened? Bring in Burrell for the next game

    – Ashton has to have lost his place. Awful. Just awful. Don’t care how bad Wade’s defence is. It can’t be worse

  20. Although several players were quite poor, I would not make TOO many changes for argentina. Would keep 12Trees only because we need to be consistent in selection and to have someone who will nail down the shirt. (No more Barrit please…)We know he can do better and who better to prove it against! In fact I would make only 3 changes. Hartley for Youngs
    Wade for Ashton (Ashton’s time is up)
    Youngs for Dixon. Thoughts?

  21. Can everyone cheer up? We beat Australia in a game that we wouldn’t have won a year ago. This side is maturing. You can’t play fantastic rugby every week and some players have off days. Calm down.

    Twelvetrees was poor but dropping here is a horrible idea. Consistency is the key, within reason obviously. Dropping Twelvetrees after one performance sends the wrong message and can end up with players going out there in fear of being dropped if they make a couple of mistakes.

    Would change B.Youngs for Dickson and Hartley for T.Youngs. Other than that leave it.

    Thought Brown, Vunipola, Launchbury and Hartley (when he came) were fantastic today!

    1. Rather than cheer up England fans need to be far more expectant of victory. This game could easily have been lost if Brown was called out and Hartley was called for obstruction. In another game that would have happened. This Wobbly team is really bad, the worst I’ve ever seen. England should have put 15 points on them. They did not.

      Also other commentators constantly calling for players who look good at club level to be elevated into the test team is just ignorance. There is a massive gap between the premiership and the test arena. Very few players can make that adjustment easily. So many commentators want Wade in for Ashton which is just pure stupidity. Two new and inexperienced wings, Yarde and Wade would be a huge disservice to them both, and probably set one of them if not both up for failure.

      Playing either Brown or Foden on the wing in place of Yarde makes a lot more sense, gives more experience, and lends some stability. Play Yarde or Wade off the bench if you want to assess their test match viability.

      1. This isn’t a mickey mouse Aussie team, I don’t know why you think we should have put so many points on them? They put 50 points on the Argentinians in Argentina (and before anyone says anything England player their second string side when we did the same).

        I agree with you that premiership to test level is a big step up – but how should we test players? if nobody gets thrown into the test team without a string of games from the bench etc. then it would take years to bed a team in. SL has done an excellent job bringing players through in the right way, Launchbury and the Vunipola brothers come to mind here, so I think we should leave it to him!

        1. The Argentinian game stands aloof from all the other poor performances. The Wobblies were soundly beaten by NZ and SA, neither of which ever looked in danger of losing to this team.
          orry but this Oz team is poor – very poor, notwithstanding a few individuals who are really good.

          Young players should come off the bench against the top 4-5 teams and perhaps start against the lesser nations. Dropping a young inexperienced player into a match against the top teams invites disaster more than it breeds experience. Some youngsters have it from day one but they are few and far between. When you have two new centres and then want to drop two new wings into the equation like many other commentators are calling for, you are doing everyone a disservice.

          While I am not in agreement with everything Clive Woodward is throwing around at the moment his general attitude about the poor England performance is in my view spot on. You don’t become #1 unless you keep being disappointed by what you can do better. In my view there is no reason England should except anything but a #1 spot, and they need to find/keep players who have that mindset at test level.

          1. I’m not really sure what you’re point is Jay. We beat Australia. We haven’t played together since we got smashed by Wales, They have been together for months and have got a lot strong since that time. Their results were poor against NZ and SA, but then a lot of teams would have been smashed by those two. Doom and gloom is no good.

            And on the experience thing – who do you suggest SL plays? I’d love to know because actually the best young English players a few years ago were not brought through properly, leaving SL in a posistion where he has had to constantly gamble on players. He hasn’t got much choice. I wouldn’t drop anyone from the back line, other than Dickson. Give them a chance, and there’s no better or more experienced waiting in the wings.

            1. Your answer is my point. It’s not just acceptable to say we beat Australia. We should have expected to beat this Oz team 99 out of 100 times. If we can’t start there we will never become a dominant force. This cheerfulness in winning a game we should always expect to win says more about a “expect to lose” and “glad we won” attitude than anything else.

              England supporters and I suspect England players have an inferiority complex which is the first thing that needs to be fixed. SA play a very similar game to England but always go into the contest expecting to win, and that is why they do most times.

  22. So england won, whilst not playing particularly well and with the benfit of favourable decision or two. Sounds like a good start, australia aren’t a bad team but they were definately second best. How hartley got away with it I don’t know, normally he is a penalty magnet.
    Find me a fan who wouldn’t have taken that result for the 3rd lions test! But they better put 20 points on argentina or be very afraid of NZ

  23. My team for Argentina.

    Vunipola, Hartley, Cole
    Parling, Launchbury
    Robshaw, Vunipola, Wood
    Youngs, Farrell
    12T, Tomkin
    Wade, Brown, Yarde

    Marler, Youngs, Wilson

    Hartley and B Youngs start as they just looked better when on the pitch.

    Parling for Lawes due to the lineout, and Parling was the starter before injury.

    On reflection would give 12T and Tomkin another run at centre to see if they can correct their mistakes. Am very worried about facing ABs without a working centre partnership, so chopping and changing now might be dangerous. I do admit though that staying the same might also be dangerous.

    Think Wade deserves a shot as Ashton didn’t take his.

    Think Dickson deserves one more chance from the bench or else it is Care time.

    1. Playing a new centre combination and two new wings is just pure suicide. You discount experience far too quickly and over value raw potential in the pressure cooker test arena far too easily.

      You build confidence in young players by allowing them to play around older more experienced players. There are very few Ben Youngs and Farrells who have the aptitude from day one. Yarde can have all the potential in the world but his facial expressions yesterday were of a player totally lost and at sea. Wade won’t fair better in your team and playing these two at wing would put Brown under such pressure his form would probably also take a smack.

      1. Jay, I understand what you are saying and agree to a certain extent. However, Wade played well against Argentina in the summer, so is not quite untested. I’m wondering what experience you want in the centres as to my mind, our only two experienced centres are both injured. Agree that Yarde looked bemused on a couple of occasions, but he’ll learn from the game. Not sure how Ashton would help from the other wing. The one thing I do want to see from a wing is attacking intent. Without Foden Ashton hasn’t shown that, and his defence has been suspect for some time so not sure how that helps Brown. Therefore I have suggested one more experienced and one less experienced player to come into the backline. Given the lack of experienced players in the squad, I would like to see it given a go.

        Would definitely say that I don’t jettison experience lightly and have defended Ashton on many occasions, including wanting him to start for the Aussie game, but enough is enough. Wade showed some promise in his last outing in the pressure cooker of test match rugby, so I think he should have another go. He’s not just raw talent as you put it.

  24. England probably just deserved to win the game based on their second half performance, however once again the officials made a huge blunder which could have turned the game. An Australian penalty was caught by I think Brown(who had good game), however his foot was on the line. The Assistant ref was metres away but must have had his eyes closed! From that play, ball ends up down field with 5 m line out to England, leading to try by Farrel. Swings and roundabouts i suppose . There was a lot of tak before the game, on who would play in the centres and how the combinations would work. Well they didnt work, in fact the English back line was woeful and never looked like making a line break. I dont really care who is playing where, however surely , at this level , it should be possible to put a player in a gap/space however all they do is the pass ball until someone gets tackled and , repeat, repeat. Boring!

    1. Your gap analysis pre-supposes that the opposition allow gaps to be created for the opposition to run through. Gaps come from individual errors and/or team errors which require exploitation and in test rugby are much more allusive to find than at club level.

      Fans always want action but never concede that perhaps the opposition defence is actually good. There are a handful of really gifted players who can create much from nothing. England does not yet possess any of these so to look for them is to be disappointed.

      This England team will do well to do what all good England teams have done before and that is to throttle the opposition and capitalise on the pressure/mistakes that result. The forward pack yesterday in no ways created an environment for the centres to run through gaps so to blame them at this stage is really unfair.

      12Ts defensive lapse is however another matter. No test centre should be run over by a smaller opposition centre. His tackle technique in that situation was simply aweful.

      1. Jay, All good international defences will of course , as you have said, try and ensure that there are no gaps. Any good back line however will try and think”out of the box” to create space /gaps.
        Your second paragraph says it all. England obviously dont have the necessary class players to create anything. Having said that they will still be hard to beat.

  25. And well done to Irish referee George Clancy for showing he had the balls to overrule the video ref if obstruction was ruled for the 2nd. try. Good luck expecting that from an English or Welsh ref for and Ireland game – integrity!

    1. He didn’t overrule the TMO. He said what he saw from the big screen and the TMO said he was of the same opinion. I’ve seen it from plenty of other refs, but they have to be at a ground with a decent big screen

  26. Staggy,the inability to put the ball just in front of the receiver is something England have always struggled with..at least in my lifetime and I’m no spring chicken.You mention it’s something we teach children to do,but yet again clearly not well enough.As for running onto the ball at speed,well,I won’t go on.. I will cheer up long enough to celebrate a win against Australia.It’s a start!

    1. Also something that I have been commenting on for a while. The annoying thing is that every now and again, and NZ and Scotland games spring to mind, we do actually do it and we actually look good, so why we don’t do it consistently I have no idea. The Welsh are brilliant at doing it with North and Cuthbert, and have scored quite a few tries as a result.

  27. The FiRst TrY was CleArly ObstrucTion, If It waS’nt aWarded England WouLD haVe LoSt.

  28. It was not always an easy game to watch, mistakes on both sides, but in general it was exciting to watch an England side learning how to be a great side.
    Stuart Barnes, as always, was a negative, critical commentator. He has never learned to do the job properly. It was the worst part of the game, listening to him.

  29. Teams make their own luck, and yesterday England got some in the shape of Brown’s catch. However there was plenty of play after the catch, who could say Brown wouldn’t have quick thrown and made similar ground if he had let it go out?

    As for the obstruction by Hartley, he didn’t block, he wasn’t a decoy and the tackler would not have reached Farrell anyway, therefore no obstruction. When a ref and a TMO don’t think it was obstruction, you have to feel they were right. although the TMOs call of “not enough obstruction” was interesting, isn’t that like being a little bit pregnant?

    England showed what they need to develop to win a game “ugly”, a useful skill, and on other days Twelvetrees and Youngs would not have such off days. I would suggest Parlings return to the lineout would eradicate most of what went wrong there yesterday.

    If there are to be complaints on the refereeing, I would have raised an eyebrow at Australia’s inability or unwillingness to scrum legally not receiving any yellow cards. It was persistent throughout the game and should have been dealt with much firmer.

    Nice to get a win and in doing so wind up all our fellow Brits without saying a word!!

    1. The Hartley “block” is a reasonably normal scenario. Hartley was in the wrong place and did obstruct Moore from running in the direction he tried to run. However, had Moore continued in that direction, Farrell’s direction change would have seen him out of position to make the tackle.
      The path he should have taken and eventually took was unobstructed hence “there was obstruction, but not enough obstruction”. Whether Moore knew he wouldn’t get there and ran into Hartley in the hope of getting a penalty for obstruction I don’t know, but it was a tight call. I would have accepted that being given either way, but wonder if I were an Aussie I’d be able to agree that Moore was never going to make the tackle.

      I do agree though that for all the “England won because the ref missed…” there is a perfectly good argument of “Australia got away with…”. The problem is that the two “reasons England won” were small things with a big result while Australia’s scrummaging for example were small things that were seemingly inconsequential.

    2. Rodney, that was a penalty kick. Brown may have liked to throw the ball in and sprint down field, but Clancy may have called him back for a an Australian throw-in 5m out. But then, given the degree of officiating, he may not have called him back.

  30. I’m not a “loads of changes” person, but if we are determined to make some then if Burrell didn’t totally bugger himself with that attempted backflip today then I’d like to see him play. He was hugely involved in the game and yeah whilst 36 was as equally not involved as Tomkins, Pisi was barely mentioned today either which means that Burrell was going looking for work. He was very good and I actually think that Dowson only got MOTM because commentators are loath to pick someone who was the start attraction in an effort to look profound in their thoughts.
    Now if we are going to change the backline then why not put a more dominating forward pack out, you could make 5 changes out of 8 if you wanted to be mental. although the 5th would cause some contention.
    However if you watch the summer tests (whilst different line up for Argentina), the real dominance we got was up front which allowed our backs to play, if we can do the same we can put points past Argentina. Also for inexperienced backs it would be nice to be behind a truly thunderous pack that may not be so good against someone like New Zealand due to lower mobility.
    Hartley for Youngs (massive youngs fan but I like Hartley’s aggression)
    Wilson for Cole (think Cole needs a kick up the arse, Wilson deserves a chance and he annihilated Argentina in the summer and improved our scrum last week too)
    Parling for Launchbury (lineout and game time for choice)
    Atwood for Lawes (scrum and game time for choice, would love to see a 4 way fight for NZ)

    Then maybe as a result of substitution i would like to see Morgs and Billy on the pitch at the same tie, Morgan does a lot of ruck work and would give Billy more time to roam.

    Backs Id go or youngs for dickson, burrell for 36 (above reasons but also would never have got run over) and otherwise the same.
    Vunipola (unless Corbs can make it? )

    Also a lot of Ashton bashing going on, I was really impressed with him, the team play was pretty toss and a lot of loose ball going on, if you want to go back and see how much cover and clearing up he did (also he did initiate yarde’s run which was one of the turning points just after brown’s run). Yeah Ashton wasn’t that thrilling in attack and he looks a lot less potent that Yarde but if you watch his whole game you can’t deny he looked like he gave a shit about the team not just about himself.

    A lot to Argue about there but Id love to see a monstrous set piece pack go out for Argentina to give the young backs some chance.

  31. I don’t think I was that impressed by the game overall. A lot of mistakes from two teams that were perhaps a bit desperate to produce something and the game was, at times, cagey. England won, and they have that under their belts now, hopefully they’ll be a bit more settled against Argentina and we’ll see some good rugby

    I think the main stat that concerned me were those of Twelvetrees. For all the talk of Twelvetrees having a poor game, analysing why he had a poor game you realise he only saw the ball 4 times. You’re bound to look quiet. His opposite number Toomua got the ball 23 times. At 12, I usually expect a player to be working as a fly half assistant, an extra dimension to a team’s attack, an extra boot to kick off or an extra pass in the chain. When centres don’t see ball I wonder about the dimensions in attack and I think it showed really with England not really penetrating much in the centre. Twelvetrees should probably have been given more ball, flat to the line to keep Australia thinking

    I do think the attack looked much better when Youngs came on, having said earlier in the week that his form is poor and Dickson should be picked ahead of him, the change to Youngs certainly added a bit more to the attack on the gainline and I still wonder about Farrell’s use in attack.

  32. I think the most encouraging aspect for me was England’s dynamism at the breakdown, mostly in defence. Rucking over and beyond the ball will generate turnovers in defence, and create quick ball in attack and should be the foundation for everything else.

    There were lots of individual errors which shouldn’t be too difficult to eradicate, and there’s plenty to build on.

    Ever the optimist…

    1. It was a match we would have lost last year so from that perspective we have progressed. Just not sure what our attacking gameplan was.

      Seriously though what will it take to drop Ashton. Has been in possession of the shirt since 2010 but I can’t remember his last good performance. 2012 6n?

      1. The quick tap he took was just embarrassing.

        Great idea, but then he throws the ball directly at the floor. Another day it might have been called forward

        Surely at this level, any player should have the skill to take a quick tap and then pass the ball accurately over a metre or so’s distance??

  33. It was a good win against a team who although have lost 3 in 10, have still been playing together for some time. Whereas England have not played together for some time, and some of them have never played a match together. With this taken account It was a good win.
    Two main points England failed: lineout not functioning, therefore not providing the platform to attack from most of the set piece. And the lack of creativity when the set piece did function. Twelvetrees was ineffectual in both defence and attack. Tomkins had a decent game defensively, but had no real chance to do anything with ball in hand. I would like to see him partnered with either Burrell or Eastmond. Burrell has the ability to draw defenders, bust holes and create space for Tomkins to exploit. Eastmond has the ability draw defenders, offload at the key moment, or dance his way through the smallest of gaps, again creating space for Tomkins to exploit. Tomkins has the ability to hold up the ball, offload out of the tackle, and keep defenders guessing what he is going to do with the ball. He also has enough pace to see him through any gaps in the defence. He didn’t have the chance to show any of this on Saturday, but it was not his fault. Twelvetrees is a good player, but Glos at the moment are not playing that well, and I just wonder if it has effected his performance for England, as he didn’t look confident in his own ability.

    1. interesting to suggest that Tomkins was decent defensively and 12trees was ineffectual. 12trees made 9 tackles, missed 2, Tomkins made 5 missed 3. Only Robshaw (14/0) and Farrell (12/1) and they had an extra 14 minutes. Not to say that I think Tomkins was terrible, but I think the main problem in the centres is that they were given no ball to use. I think Billy and Joel both got stuck in and were busy getting into rucks, putting bodies in the way and I saw a couple of times 12trees diving on loose balls, making himself useful, I don’t think he had a bad game at all. He may look back at the missed tackle on Toomua negatively, but Toomua took it well and watching again I think it was Tom Youngs’ tackle to make

  34. I only caught the highlights but it did seem a scrappy affair but to play scrappily against Australia and come away with a win is a good thing.

    Highlights were Brown, Yarde, our work at the breakdown and Billy Vunipola if I was playing against him i’d cry and run away like a little girl, frightening and intelligent play.

    Negatives were Ashton, the lack of ball given to the centres, handling errors and the Aussies constant yapping in the refs ear.

  35. I’d have to agree with a few comments on here regarding the coaching set-up taking some flack for the lack of attacking threat in the England back line. Just watching some highlights of the Premiership over the weekend, and I know there’s a big difference between Premiership level and International level, but some of the passing, kicking and general try scoring over the weekend were fantastic, and have been so far this season. So the question is why can the players not re-create some of this for England? The back line we played on Saturday have all started well for their clubs and between them have created and scored some great tries. Maybe Catt needs to speak to the players, and let them have more of a say on how they want to use the ball?

    1. I’ll risk saying this – it’s cos the league is a poor indicator of international quality. I’ll say though that this goes for both leagues involved – for the Aussies how mystified did they look that the ball was not simply coming back at rucks?

      I think that our domestic leagues can lead to an overly cosy view of quality. English teams broadly play in a similar fashion and hence “let” each other play in that way. Super 15 you broadly see teams letting the ball come back at rucks etc. NZ/SA are a step above all of us because they’re able to move to a different level in internationals.

      Warming to my theme, there does seem to be a broadly poor correlation between domestic and international quality – France, Wales, Ireland all in that boat as well.

      1. Brighty, I understand what you are saying and there is not necessarily any correlation between domestic and international form, because at international level everything happens much quicker, but this is more of a mental leap for most players. Some can make the transition and some cannot. However the point being made is that these players demonstrate the skills required week in and week out during the season, so why can’t they demonstrate the same skills at international level. Passing the ball behind the player probably happened with about 60-70% of our passes on Saturday, and it’s not as if we had players running onto the ball at speed which makes the margin for error that much smaller. This is just basic rugby which ought to be translated onto the bigger stage.

  36. Poor performance overall but very happy with win and to nil Australia in second half show high professionalism. My worry will always be lack of guile and fluency in backs. It will always mean we will struggle to break away from teams and thus opposition will always be close enough to remain interested. Having said that our inexperience and youth is exciting and maybe 2015 is too soon but who knows from there on. We need creativity and risk from back line which may mean another coach to support Farrell and Catt. I predict win v arg but lose to nz

  37. I have seen better rugby ( with the same lack of knowledge of what to do) at prep school matches , the first half was so bad that had I been sitting in an upper tier seat I might have thrown myself off as it had sucked the will to live out of me, sir clive woodward had it right when he said he thought the first half was the worst 40 minutes of international rugby he had ever seen at twickenham, combine that with the constant musical interruptions , a screeching opera singer, filthy toilets dreadful food a dilapidated stadium and you have a less than perfect day out , they keep the millenium stadium clean inside and out , why not twickers, I also see that that violent all black thug colin meads is honoured on a wall inside the “museum” if actually pulling an australian scrum half’s leg out of its socket during a ruck doesn’t disqualify from “being honoured” what does, only the skin held the guy’s leg on , I can’t rmember his name

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