Picture this: a team in disarray on the pitch, and a group of players defined by indiscipline off it. A squad pockmarked with talented individuals but in need of some serious guidance and a stern hand at the tiller.
Who are we talking about here? Well, it could quite conceivably be either England in 2011 or Australia in 2014. When Stuart Lancaster took over the England team, they were not in a good place as an international rugby team – yes, they had won the Six Nations, but there was no direction in the way they played or trained, with the players acting unacceptably off the pitch – for example Manu Tuilagi deciding it was ok to go for a dip in Auckland Harbour.
Australia under Ewan McKenzie were largely similar. Talented individuals like Kurtley Beale thought they could get away with murder, and some of their behaviour away from the rugby paddock left an awful lot to be desired, while they were regularly being bested on it.
Cheika is just as hard a task-master as Lancaster, and has apparently installed several measures designed to re-educate the Australian players about the history of the jersey and what it means to play for their country – all things that Lancaster has done as well.
But Cheika, crucially, has done a lot more than that. He he has not created this ‘teacher-pupil’ dynamic that it is now clear has reigned in the England squad in the past few years. When the biggest decisions and performances have been needed, the English players have flat out failed. That is not all the fault of the coaching group, but it is certainly down to them in a large part.
England’s brightest attacking moments against Australia came from first phase ball – they often penetrated from a planned move. After that, however, that attacking light was significantly dimmed. There was no thinking on their feet, no creative spark – which is indicative of a team that has been drilled into submission, so used to having a specific gameplan shoved down their necks that innovation is an entirely alien concept.
And this is where the Lancaster/Farrell coaching ticket has surely run its course. They have done a fair amount right, but selection has been muddled and those players that can really make a difference, through moments of brilliance that are needed to beat the very best, have more often than not been left on the sidelines.
George Ford’s introduction was briefly a step in the right direction on Saturday night, but he is only one man and cannot do everything with limited tools at his disposal. If you gave Michelangelo a handful of Playdough and a set of Crayolas, it’s unlikely he’d be able to recreate the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.
And how instructive was it, that when Jonny May went off injured at half-time, it was Ford they turned to and not Sam Burgess? Had they brought on the ex rugby-league player, they would have been fielding the same midfield trio that, just a week previously, had been backed as the right one in England’s biggest game for four years, against Wales. This was as close to an admission that they got that call wrong as we are likely to get.
The rumours about Andy Farrell’s influence over selection and training is worrying. How has a man who had an entirely unspectacular and short-lived union career, and whose role started out as defence coach, come to be relied upon to pick the England back-line?
If the rumours are true, then it is Farrell, more than Lancaster, who should carry the can. I don’t think wholesale changes are needed but someone has to take responsibility for getting selection and tactics wrong for the two biggest games in England’s recent history.
England need to add to their coaching set-up, not necessarily change it wholesale, to fix the problems that became so clear on Saturday. They must bring in a top rugby brain – a Jake White or an Eddie Jones – to teach the players how to think for themselves and help with selecting the right team.
For now, though, we will continue to reflect on Saturday night. Michael Cheika and Stuart Lancaster took over with their respective national teams in very similar situations – but the Aussie has done twice as much in a fraction of the time, and reaped the benefits in front of a stunned Twickenham crowd who deserved better.
By Jamie Hosie
Follow Jamie on Twitter: @jhosie43
Photo by: Patrick Khachfe / Onside Images
I thought you were talking about Wales in 07.
Banging an old drum here but I still do understand the kudos Lancaster is given for supposedly sorting out the culture. Chieka and Gats did with much less fuss (neither has written a book about it) in much less time and with, crucially, an immediate turnaround in on field success, both winning things almost immediately.
As some English commentators on here have pointed out – SL has done an excellent job in convincing people that there was something critically rotten at the core of English rugby. It wasn’t that bad and what England actually needed was a rugby skills coach, not a HR professional.
Awful typo, I mean ” … I still do *not* understand …”
Working on a bucket list for best replacement coaching team
Forwards coach: Mario Ladesma
Defence Coach: Eddie Jones
Attack Coach: Wayne Smith
Head Coach: Joe Schmidt
What do people think?
Too many egos there for me Leon – can’t see Jones taking orders from Schmidt. Excellent individuals all but not a sustainable structure.
(however, I am glad to see that Shaun Edwards isn’t being considered…).
Care to contribute
p.s. please don’t answer Gats, Edwards & Howley
Can only see Edwards moving if he is offered head coach (unlikely) or if Gatland moves on (when Hansen retires!), and that’s if Gatland doesn’t take him with him (likely) so sadly Shaun Edwards is an unlikely candidate. Don’t know the availability of the others.
Some good names there but I agree with Brighty regards egos. Can’t see Schmidt leaving Ireland or Ledesma leaving Australia. I’d take Wayne Smith in a heartbeat!! If he was willing to take the job. Perhaps Eddie Jones as head coach?? He’s got Japan playing some good running rugby and their forwards can actually handle the ball so perhaps someone to look at.
If the RFU decide to look within England then I can’t see beyond Mallinder, Baxter or Ryan. Personally I’d go to the Southern Hemisphere though.
Just throwing a few potential names out their (not necessarily for HC but the roles in general); Stephen Larkham, Toby Booth, Jake White, Nick Mallet, Paul Gustard, I’m sure there are many others who you could considered but these are some off the top of my head.
As long as they are an experienced unit overall with a good record I will be somewhat happy!!!
Just to clarify this is a pie in the sky, dream team, bucket list not an actual shpping list. Most of these are happily contracted elsewhere and i see no reason for them to come here and get sledged by the british media
I completely got that but I think we’d have an outside chance for Jones or Ledesma and possibly smith come to that.
We need a blend of Southern Hemisphere intellect and experience along with a knowledge of the English game.
English head coach shouldn’t be the first international head coaching position (Kiwis send theirs around the world for training for a reason!)
One more leftfield name for a forwards coach …. Jamie Joseph. I really like the high paced, high continuity game of the highlanders.
Good shout!
Cheika came to this world cup with a squad with players of huge experience. Giteau, Ashley-Cooper, Moore, Genia, Mitchell, Pocock, Poloto-Nau, Hooper and Simmons all with 45 caps +.
The difference made in a year, perhaps made easier by the fact they have masses of experience there to draw back on.
But looking at Stuart Lancaster, he wasn’t a good top level coach. There was nothing in his CV that suggested he would be.
Andy Farrell and Mike Catt were relatively new to coaching before going straight into the international fold. Cheika on the other hand had success as a head coach, then once taken to the international scene recruited wisely.
Lancaster’s reputation came from being in charge of the development squads. Put him back there, put him in the role of head of player development. Bring a proper coach up, a domestic coach with proven success, and clear coaching know how.
1. “Bring a proper coach up, a domestic coach with proven success, and clear coaching know how.”
2. In addition to that, one with experience of creating a sparkling back line that can play with creativity and flair and deliver results.
3. Ideally too, one who’s not going to be drawn into accusations of favouring his son in selection.
How about Mike Ford…
Well, two out of three is not bad!
Mike Ford used to be England’s defence coach and didn’t do a brilliant job of it, if you want to know who to thank for Bath’s scintillating back play then Toby Booth is their attack coach.
I’m not in favour of giving Lancaster a kicking, I think the media is at least partly to blame for creating all the hype after just one or two encouraging performances. BUT I just watched the recording of Japan v Samoa and have to say that what Eddie Jones has achieved with a much smaller pool of talent is little short of staggering. He is certainly top of my list and I would get Sir Clive to run the whole show and get the Blazers back into the administrative and marketing role that they should be performing instead of creating playing strategy and influencing selection (as in players playing overseas not being selected)
Irrespective of what he has done in the last 4 years, did 99% of rugby fans really think that there was an attitude problem in the camp under Johnson – if i think back i think most of us where concerned more about the lack of a decent centre partnership, creativity, and no out and out openside, and crumbling under pressure.
None of that has changed.
I couldn’t care if the whole team where a bunch of Tw@@s ( and as far as the rest of the world is concerned they still are if you look as the international press reaction to England players comments before the match) if they win games and play decent rugby.
Bingo! The inexperience of the coaching set up only really manifested itself at the RWC as it’s the only time the international coaches have 3 or 4 months with their players. The difference between the good and bad coaches is magnified. For AIs and 6N a shit coach can’t do too much damage as they get players largely pre-prepared by their clubs. You only find out if they are truly any good or not at a RWC.
2011
– Novice coaches
– Poorly prepared
– Poor selection
– Last minute changes to key positions
– Couldn’t handle the pressure
Still topped the group. 2015 is far worse. Royal spouses caught motorboating or having a dip in the harbour were really not our biggest problems to solve and certainly the easiest problems to solve.
I’m not interested in being the worlds best team off the pitch!
“If the rumours are true, then it is Farrell, more than Lancaster, who should carry the can”
Sorry Jamie but I utterly disagree with this. SL was the one who picked Farrell and then let him dictate selection and tactics. In my mind this damns him further.
In terms of a new coach I believe we should recruit an English coach to coach the national team – this is just my opinion that to coach, like players you should be qualified to play for your country. However failing that I could compromise on Nick Mallett as at least he was born in england and I believe to English parents. Bring in Shaun Edwards also. I am also a fan of Brian Ashton and think he was unluckily with the group of 2007 who needed to be spoon fed, a symptom of our rugby structure where players can’t think for themselves or have it coached out of them. They did make the final though! Just my opinion.
Will be rooting for all the other home nations but think Australia will be world champs, they are just too good
You’ve had 3 English coaches, I think since, SCW & they’ve ALL failed. And you want to go for another?! Like who?
The ? you really need to ask is; ‘Do you want to win a WC?’. Then you need to find 1 who is going to change your mind set about how you think of & about how the game needs to be played; i.e. 1 who’ll get you to play like Oz did last Sat. 1 who isn’t hung up on perceived dogma about not picking ‘o/seas’ players. Sort out their contracts. Find a way!
They won the breakdown, so get some proper flankers. They won the scrum, so get a scrum (sorry, couldn’t resist that with all the prev stuff about how England have ‘owned’ the Oz scrum since Agincourt). They carved England in midfield (and scored TRIES therein), so get a proper midfield, which can CREATE as well as bosh & defend. Yr line out seemed okish.
Mallet seems an option, but don’t know what he’s been doing for the past few yrs… & he was born here. JJ (no, not that 1, the other 1 from Otago!) seems an innovative idea, although no Int’al exp. Ed Jones? Check him out!
But, watch out that Ritchie (no, not McCaw!) doesn’t get involved. He’s the joker who gave Lancs a 6 yr extn!?! Flaming Nora!
But Lancaster needs to go with his record of FAILURE… despite what Shane Williams, Fitzpatrick & Lynagh say. Unbelievable.
Heard a rumour that Eddie Jones would consider the role if England asked him…I say rumour, read: Sky Sports News.
I would be disappointed if they canned Lancaster, but clearly something has gone on behind closed doors which we will probably never have full details on…the exclusion of Luther Burrell for Sam Burgess and their persistence on selecting him when he clearly want up to the task being one example; the apparent comments of a Mr. Vunipola at a mythical Q and A being another…conjecture… But no smoke without fire and all that…
He also said that the idea of him as head coach with SCW in a DoR role would be “interesting”. Bloody right it would be!
I got the impression that Eddie very much had his tongue in cheek for that whole interview!
Jake White has put his name forward too.
I completely agree with you about Farrell senior Jamie. You virtually took the words right out of my mouth. If what is being said is true then the RFU also take a large portion of the blame for that too in my opinion.
There is something rank rotten at the core of all of this. The more we get to know the worse the whole situation appears. I know that journalists are paid to sensationalise and play devil’s advocate but there is no smoke etc and the whole enterprise stinks from top to bottom.
Ritchie needs to concentrate on off the field commercial affairs, Teflon same, Lancaster has to relieved of H/Coach position and Farrell needs to go away,earn his stripes and then maybe he might be of use in the future. It obviously hasn’t dawned on him that IF he has been leaning on SL.particularly with regard to Burgess,it aint going to do a lot for his lads future prospects at England level. Mud sticks.
Get a top and I mean top S/H man in , let him choose his coaching staff and give him four years. No interference from upstairs or target driven PR bollocks.At the very least we will be able to judge the players and coaches purely on what we see on the pitch,which is how it should be.
Jim Mallinder- that’s who England should go for if or maybe Lord Lucan as an outside bet.
Eddie Jones-if they are prepared to go for a foreign coach?
Selection has been Stu’s downfall.
Too many Saracens player mats of older Far-ell and a son of Far-ell who turned out not be from the planet Krypton after all. Too many players see as ‘the next best thing’ only to disappear after agame or two. But that has so often been an issue with England going to 40 years or so.
England must go for Ford-Burrell-Joseph as their midfield. That could really hurt sides. The choice of Burgess and Barritt was just dire v Wales and he offered nothing when he took to field v Aus.
They also need a real No7 coz the Aussies totally showed up the England backrow. Too slow, too ponderous and no turnovers of any note v Aus or V Wales the week b 4.
How many times did we see Hooper or Pocock get to the breakdown and Robshaw was nowhere to be seen. Remember how Tips and Warburton totally outclassed him in Cardiff in 2013?
Has the RFU forgotten a Mr Back and all the turnover he won for England?????
The England forwards also looked too fat for me. Parling appeared to be carrying a gut and Marler and Cole are lard arses. The Aussie Front Row looked much fitter and slimmer around the waist area and they were scrimmaging much better too.
The problem is that English rugby is too forward-orientated and just a bit too dull to watch.
Actually, in the Wales match Robshaw made more turnovers than Warbs, and if you compare all their other stats from the 3 games so far they’re remarkably similar.
I would like to see a really top experienced coach come in, SH if necessary, with a really good English coach under him to be groomed for the role as his successor. I don’t see why this couldn’t become a rolling system, almost like an assistant manager in football. They learn the job and then, when ready, assume the role- this would aid continuity with direction and ethos within English rugby.
Ideally I would like an English coach, I think there are some real good candidates out there, but could understand someone like Eddie Jones coming in, would just like the RFU to ensure that his experience and knowledge is passed on to some English coaches to give us longevity in coaching ability – he should be used as a mentor as well as coach.
Lastly, I would love to see SCW get back involved in some capacity. There is no doubt English rugby would come above PR in the list of priorities and he could be a really useful foil to the next coach.
I think we must step back and look at the last 12 years.France and Wales 4 times 6N champions and Ireland 3 times.England ZERO!4 coaches 4 failures.Given biggest player base and budget that is disgraceful and a scandal.A damning inditement of the whole rfu.Until the rot causes of this failure are identified and rectified English rugby will still go nowhere even with the best coach in the world.Wayne Smith is no fool
Why doesn’t anybody remember that we won it in 2011!?
Because Lancaster’s one sided rewriting of history would have you believe that he inherited the worst England team ever.
To my mind Johno had a bigger task taking over from Ashton, yet he beat Australia home and away, won a 6n, capped the likes of Lawes, Ashton, Cole, Foden, Corbs, Hartley, B Youngs, Tuilagi…
He was not perfect and like Lancaster he placed too much faith in his support coaches who were not up to scratch.
I suppose that is the big fear Harlequin. An outsider looking at the pantomime villain RFU and avoiding us like the plague.
You can well imagine a scenario whereby a really big name S/H coach would not put up with their interference and walk, even if they were paying him shedloads, thus damning us to more mediocrity.
Jones mentions Deano as a potential, what do people think about that? Reckon that could be a great shout
Dean was the right choice in 2008, rather than Johno. Not sure he is the force he once was. Plus if that means have John Wells back as the fwds coach, no thanks.
Agree with Benjit Deano in 2008 but he’s not pulling up trees at Newcastle, lets face it they haven’t been relegated because:
A. Only one team is relegated from The Premier League.
B. Worcester and London Welsh have been worse than them.
Todd Blackadder?