Premiership teams with European clean sweep
Saracens impressed with their first outing in the Champions Cup last week and they continued to write the headlines by brushing Ulster aside with a bonus point win in Belfast. Trailing 9-5 at the break, and having had two men in the sin bin at separate times, Sarries piled on 22 unanswered points in the second half. This included a wonderful try by Alex Goode, who impressed throughout the afternoon. After Goode chipped through Duncan Taylor pulled off a jaw-dropping offload to free his team-mate, and before long the Scottish centre helped himself to a score after Farrell’s break. Billy Vunipola rounded out the effort with a try from the rolling maul, bringing up the final score of 27-9.
Bath compounded Irish misery by beating Leinster 19-16 at The Rec on Saturday afternoon, in a game that was more exciting than the low score suggests. George Ford was perfect with his goal kicking, contributing 14 points through a conversion, a drop goal and three penalties, one of which sealed the game for the Premiership side. Leinster scored late through Josh Van der Flier but this loss means they start with two losses in the European Cup for the first time since 1996.
In Pool 4, Leicester rolled over Benetton Treviso on Saturday to the tune of 36-3. Two tries from Telusa Veainu were the headline for the Tigers, with Peter Betham and Greg Bateman also crossing.
More cards were shown as Racing 92 took on Scarlets, with the French side playing their first match of the Champions Cup after last week’s cancellationr. Racing scored four first half tries to win 29-12 despite a 43rd minute red card for Bernard Le Roux and a yellow for Ben Tameifuna. Although the Welsh team hit back twice in the second period through Lewis Rawlins and Aled Thomas, Racing were largely untouchable and Johan Goosen kicked a penalty on 70 minutes to confirm the victory.
Northampton rode a powerful scrum to their second victory of the tournament, defeating Glasgow Warriors 26-15 at Scotstoun Stadium. 21 of Saints’ points came in the first half, led by George Pisi’s try early on, jumping on a loose ball following a Steven Myler high-bomb, which was quickly followed up by two further Myler penalties. Ah-See Tuala added another score for Northampton before Glasgow eventually crossed the whitewash through Peter Horne. For those keeping count, there were two yellow cards in this one. Northampton’s dominance at the set-piece saw Ryan Grant sin-binned after Kieran Brookes put him under immense pressure, and Luther Burrell was also carded for repeated infringements. However Tuala’s second try put Saints out of sight, even once Josh Strauss had crossed for the hosts.
The one all-French clash saw Toulouse take on Oyonnax and fight to victory, 24-18. Although Louis Picamoles was on fine form, his side, and especially his forward compatriots, were not able to stamp anything resembling dominance on the game and in particular the scrum. As such, the game did not begin to open up until the second period when Timoci Matanavou jinked his way over from close range. Vincent Martin later crossed for Oyonnax to bring them close before Gael Fickou sliced the defence apart with a wonderful solo effort to hammer the win home.
Exeter kicked off their Champions Cup campaign with a loss at Ospreys last week, but returned to winning ways against Bordeaux Begles, 34-19. Rob Baxter’s side also grabbed a try bonus point, which will go some way to make up for their empty handed return last weekend, after Olly Woodburn scored twice to go with Ian Whitten and Moray Low’s scoring efforts.
Sunday saw two games, Dave Strettle starring in a stunning match between Clermont and Ospreys to bag a brace, with the Auvergnois eventually running out 34-29 winners. An epic length of the field try in the last minute finished by replacement scrum-half Tom Habberfield saw the Ospreys come away with two bonus points. Later on, Wasps confirmed that their win in Leinster last weekend was no fluke, as they pummelled three time European champions Toulon 32-6 at the Ricoh Arena to leave them with 10 points from two games.
European Rugby Champions Cup star man: Nathan Hughes
Gloucester and Harlequins win to top their groups
Both Harlequins and Gloucester kicked off the European weekends with decisive wins in their respective fixtures. Quins defeated Cardiff Blues 32-20 in a topsy-turvy game where they trailed 6-3 at half time. Tim Visser and Charlie Walker scored scored on the wings, before the Blues decided to ignite their comeback. Completely against the run of play, though, Danny Care scuttled in at the corner to not only decide the win, but also to secure the bonus point with the final play of the game.
Gloucester made tough work of their victory away at La Rochelle. They eventually won out 33-20, with Ben Morgan opening the try scoring account after just 5 minutes, but it was Charlie Sharples who lit up the Stade Marcel Deflandre with a scorching solo try, exhibiting every ounce of his pace, to round off the win.
On Friday, Edinburgh were victorious over Agen 27-6, thanks to 12 points from Greig Tonks and a man-of-the-match performance from Scotland flanker John Hardie. The openside was responsible for creating opportunities and finishing them, assisting Cornell Du Preez for his try before taking one of his own in the latter stages. The other Friday fixture had Montpellier hosting Calvisano in a forgettable romp by the French team, the final score reading 64-0 with nine tries scored.
Worcester and London Irish failed to continue promising starts to the Challenge Cup, both losing away from home. Irish were at least able to take a bonus point away from their loss to Grenoble, falling 27-20 after a last-minute Clement Gelin try snatched victory from the Exiles. Worcester, meanwhile, lost to Zebre, the Italians scoring in the very first minute of the match and through a cool-headed kicking display from Carlo Canna (17 points, 1 conversion, 1 drop goal, 4 penalties) shut Worcester down, winning comfortably 27-8.
Castres denied Newport Gwent Dragons the win in a 32-29 thriller on Saturday afternoon, the French side scoring four tries on their way to a bonus point win. Daniel Kirkpatrick, Geoffrey Palis, Thomas Combezou and Alex Tulou all scored for Castres, while Dragons crossed through Carl Meyer and Elliott Dee.
Connacht squeezed past Brive to stay at the top of Pool 1, winning 21-17 thanks to three tries in 15 minutes, either side of half-time. Pat Lam’s side took charge for that middle period and kept the score at a comfortable 21-10 before Sevanaia Galala scored in the 75th minute after a rolling maul to increase the pressure on Connacht. Completing a mixed bag for English sides in the Challenge Cup, Sale Sharks beat Pau 29-20 in front of 4,000 spectators at the AJ Bell Stadium.
European Rugby Challenge Cup star man: Carlo Canna
Hero(es) of the weekend: this goes to the Ospreys, for their never-say-die attitude that saw them fight back and claim two points against Clermont at the seemingly insurmountable Marcel Michelin. Fighting a seemingly losing battle, they never gave up and two late tries – both of which were superb in their own right – saw them claim two bonus points. A superb effort.
Villain of the weekend: there were a horrendous number of cards this weekend, some of which were valid but others which only came about after some horrendous over-officiousness from referees and TMOs alike. None were more ridiculous than Billy Vunipola’s perfectly legitimate tackle that bafflingly saw him yellow-carded.
Try of the weekend: you will not see many this season better than the final score by the Ospreys in the Massif Central, a stunning team try that started in their own 22 and was finished by Tom Habberfield. It was not only brilliant but also hugely important, as it gave them two invaluable points.
By Fraser Kay and Jamie Hosie
@fraserkay
@jhosie43
Photo by: Patrick Khachfe / Onside Images
As you know by now, we are hilarious, and you should be following us on Facebook and Twitter. 
It would almost seem as if Ford and Farrell swapped roles this weekend, with a fantastic kicking display from Ford, and some great running, dummying and passing play from Farrell!!
Great result from Wasps, will be interesting to see the away game!!
Heartening to see scrum dominance from Bath and Northampton after our measly WC showing. Brookes was excellent, Auterac and Thomas v. good against, essentially, Ireland’s front row. Cole needs to rediscover his 2012 form fast.
Attwood again showed the need to have balance in the second row.
That last try was superb from the Ospreys!
But surely Heroes of the Weekend should go to Wasps for their absolute whupping of the three times European Champions? Anyone predict that kind of score line beforehand?
And Villain of the Weekend should go to Matthew Rees for his awful stamp and red card
Brilliant day yesterday! Absolutely could not believe what I was watching. I had faint hope that we might scrape a win but nothing like that! Nathan Hughes walks into the England team when he is eligible. A back row of him O’Connor and Robshaw is something I could like to see.
Thought Haskell was brilliant as well, a few superb turnovers. For Wasps is consistently brilliant at the breakdown. I wonder if the England coaching is so negative he is discouraged to compete in the way he is allowed to at Wasps? He competes with the absolute best regularly in a Wasps shirt but it doesn’t seem to translate to test level regularly enough. His performance vs Wales in the 2015 6N is how he is week in week out for Wasps. He dealt with Armitage and Fernandez extremely well. In fact, between him and George Smith they have the upper hand at the breakdown, was great to watch.
Daly is electric with ball in hand – he had to be in the England squad. Wade was also better positionally I thought; good to see.
Farrell was brilliant. Have a running game like that combined with his kicking and game management and I don’t think I’m exaggerating to say he could be an absolute superstar.
Agree with y you on Hughes 100% and that’s with Billy playing nicely. Would put ewers or Beaumont in at 6, better form than robshaw and both have better all round games
I almost went Ewers. However, with Hughes offering fantastic carrying, I think the blend would be better with a real workhorse at 6. Robshaw is a decent line out option and his ruck/tackle count is as good as anyone in the world. He just was not a 7.
Ewers on the bench to cover 6 and 8 – perfect!
Absolutely spot on! Very good squad suddenly then! We know Robshaw “can” fill in at 7 if O’Connor was to get injured so we are fully covered!
If Farrell can kick 90%+ and play like he did against Ulster regularly then I think the debate on who gets the England 10 shirt is over. He just needs to find that consistency. Ford was solid at the weekend as well, but then again he always is when the Bath forwards are dominant.
The biggest thing for me this weekend was the utter dominance by English (and soon to qualify as English) forwards. From Hughes to Auterac to Maco Vunipola. England’s pack looks like it has a lot of potential, both in the set piece and the loose.
Forgot to mention the brilliant tweet from SCW yesterday. To quote it, “English teams showing World Cup just did not reflect amazing talent available – just pick them”.
Pretty damning of the previous selection policy and absolutely spot on. Expecting a very different England team in the 6 nations to the one we say at the WC, particularly in the midfield.
Hope Simpson gets a shot as well. Doesn’t seem to have a weakness which most others for the shirt do. Even Youngs, who I’m a big fan of, can appear a bit slow with his service on occasions.
I think Eddie Jones will have a real problem with Youngs and his typical slow service. A golden opportunity for Simpson to try and claim the 9 shirt. And its about time we had someone new(ish) competing for that position – the trio of Youngs, Care and Wiggy have been in place too long and none are at the top of their game these days.
Don’t agree that Youngs service is “typically” slow. At his best he is our best option at 9. His mix of game management and attacking the fringes makes him our best option by a mile, until now.
Simpsons all round game has come on so much that he just has to be at least in the squad.
At his best he is world class. For me the problem is that his is at his best only a third of the time. Another third or so he can be very average, and when he is in that kind of mood is service slows down something chronic.
Enoch will be rejoicing at your choice of hero of the week………………!
Sharpies try was amazing. Scintillating acceleration from another overlooked Glos winger (JSD). Even the French commentators went into raptures about it!
Wasps were stunning – Dai Young now being talked of as the post-19 Welsh coach, a position he covets (he delib left Cardiff as he was told he needed wider experience before the WRU would consider him). Simpson has to be the new English 9 but for me player of the weekend was Ruaridh Jackson. Composed and clinical but combined with lovely off the cuff skills that created scores. With him and the Scottish centre down at Saracens I’d say the Scots have lots to be happy with after this weekend (despite their own teams not having the best weekend).
What I enjoyed most was the total intent to play rugby to win the game. There is something about Wasps that makes it possible for neutrals to be thoroughly energised by their victories whereas I can’t help but always want to see Saracens lose.
Was at the Quins game – same old from us. Decent in patches but not enough composure and an inability to sustain a physical challenge much past halftime. 2 interception tries from Quins was just reward for their pressure and line speed but they were definitely assisted by our poor decision making. BP try was harsh – Quins player on wrong side of ruck backheels it out for the try but that’s the way things go when you’re on top.
Irish rugby in a beaten up state after the WC and now their heavily backed clubs failing to mount any sort of a challenge in Europe. Could be tough for them going forward with the massive debts they’ve built up in order to avoid the player drain that Wales has seen.
English clubs definitely shining but one note of caution for the twitterati installing them as Grand Slam favourites based on the prem showings in Europe – each team has a core/spine of excellent overseas purchases that makes the 3% difference. Gelling the Eng players into a coherent and consistent force will be tougher. If it wasn’t then France would have walked the 6Ns.
(and yes, having read it back I can see that this reply is Welsh focussed…)
Do agree on Jackson actually. I expect to see him keep his place over Goperth in the Wasps side this weekend. He’s had two brilliant games in a row now, surely won’t be dropped. The Scots with him and Russell appear to suddenly have the options at half back that they haven’t had in a very long time.
Dai Young has been a miracle worker since he arrived at Wasps. Whilst I really hope we don’t lose him to Wales; having him until 2019 would be nice, I’d take that. He certainly seems to be someone that has the ability to coach a test side.
Oh dear – hadn’t seen much of that on twitter about England; some people have such short memories!
Gats is pretty much nailed on to take us through to 2019 – if we can get the Euro cup winning coach (surely Wasps are only going to get better?) after that then I’ll be very happy to welcome Dai home.
One thing I forgot to mention – Armitage was a bit anonymous on the weekend. Playing behind a pack that didn’t have it all it’s own way reveals him to be a very good 7 but not the messiah that England were hoping for. He’s no Pocock or McCaw and not even, for me, a Warburton/SOB.
Fully expect Toulon to come back hard. Only team to have beaten them in the group stages in last couple of years was Cardiff and that didn’t hurt Toulon’s eventual run to yet another trophy. Gave us one of the best days we’ve had for a while though.
I’m still dizzy from yesterdays but I’m ready to consider possible Euro glory yet! Top 4 and Euro knock outs would be amazing this year for Wasps, especially considering our group. It really wasn’t that long ago that we were a few points from being relegated and going extinct! Despite being unhappy with the Coventry move; it was obviously the right thing for the club.
Armitage – completely agree. Certainly don’t think he is in that league, never have. Would have liked to have seen him given a chance (if he did move back). but he certainly is no messiah. He was completely outplayed at the breakdown by Haskell and Smith. One of which is great at club level and has never quite made the step up consistently, and the other is 35!
Realise that first sentence made no sense; clearly still too excited from the result yesterday. Should say: I’m still dizzy from yesterdays result so I’m not ready to consider possible Euro glory yet!
I haven’t seen anything from Armitage (or conversely, any lack of comparable quality missing from the home options) that would, for me, make sense for Eddie to start a war with the clubs over the home based players rule. You can add Abendanon and Strettle to that as well – two players who had years to really hit the heights in England if they wanted to be nailed on Eng test players. They also have plenty of home based competition for their positions.
This whole “European player of the year” award is such a farce – driven by marketing men so it’s pretty far removed from a real quality assessment but it didn’t half create a lovely big stick to beat Stu with. Mind you, he created a whole forest of other ones himself.
George Smith – what a legend. What happened to him in the “lost” years before he turned back up at Wasps?
I’m pretty sure George Smith has been playing in France and Japan for the last few years, possibly even at Toulon for a couple of years??
I think he is already putting himself forward for signing of the season, a real game changer for Wasps and proving (yet again!!!) what a difference a genuine turnover machine seven can make to a team. In him, Halai and Piutau Wasps have made some fantastic signings!!!
A good example of my pt kit that the best English Prem team performances come with a good smattering of influential overseas players. One of Dai Young’s best qualities at Cardiff was his ability to bring overseas quality over and make them into complete gems – Xavier Rush, Ben Blair are two standout examples. Good to see he is still doing it.
Definitely agree with you, looking at last years top four in the prem, Leicester had Salvi and Goneva, Bath; Louw, James, Agulla, Northampton; Manoa, Pisi’s, North, Saracens; Bosch, Hargreaves, Brits to name a few from each team
Marketing men and curmudgeonly ex-players who happen to write for The Times and sits on the voting panel for the award…
Ahem… Tigers beat Toulon at home last season Brighty. But of course, how did that work out? They steamrolled their way to the title yet again.
They were miserable at the weekend though. I think they’ll beat everyone at home, but will need an away win at either Leinster or Bath to go through. At the moment, Dublin looks the more likely location for that.
Ah sorry, I’d forgotten about that.
I thought the commentator made a good pt – Toulon like to steamroller you so you give away pens, they build up a 9-12 pt lead, then they take the leash off. Problem now is that with all of their metronomes crocked they can’t take advantage of pens between the half and 22. If they could have taken their kicks I think they’d have been 6 or 9 nil up before Wasps first try and maybe the game would have had a different complexion.
I think playing at Bath will suit them as well. Bath (in my limited experience of watching them i.e. 1 Euro cup game this year) look like Toulon to me. Huge forwards, deep forward oriented bench. Smash people behind the gainline, use that to bring wide players in quickly around the defence and lots and lots and lots of inside passes. Where Wasps caught Toulon was they beat them up front but then their backplay was all over the place, in a good way. Toulon never really knew what was coming and for me that’s why Ruaridh was the player of the weekend. Kicks, taps, flicks, runs, inside/outside passes. Brilliant stuff. Ford was excellent but I can’t help think he got the plaudits a little too readily over the Scotsman – probably partly to do with Sat vs Sun games and deadlines, etc.
Also a tip to Owens at Leicester as well. A proper test of “Gatland’s law” looks imminent.
And yes, I’m ignoring Farrel :-)
Just grasping onto your comments regarding Gatlands law. What happens now with Charteris? He’s just signed for Bath from next season; does he still get picked?
Good question – The “law” has never really been tested but I think current status of this made up piece of BS (to make my opinion clear) is that we have two recognised “exceptions” in Jamie Roberts and Halfpenny. Charteris used to be ok because he signed before the law, but I *think* there was mention that anyone who didn’t resign to a Welsh team when given the chance would now fall foul of it. So it’ll be time to see if it has any teeth.
Personally I think we should scrap it. We are beyond the pt where the league and the salaries are competitive with what’s on offer so we can’t enforce the rule with such a disparity. I think Eng can (and should) because the differences are much smaller between them and France. In Wales we need to sort out the league and the salaries first, get them competitive (the total package), then start telling guys what the rules are.
Is it not Roberts and Priestland? Thought Halfpenny signed before the rule? I’ve been thinking Gatland may drop Priestland and go with, “I’ll only pick two that ignore the rule/law/guidelines/whatever it is”.
Are the central contracts that are being offered now not competitive with what is on offer elsewhere? I would assume they must be for so many to sign? Maybe not though.
Priestland is “having a rest” from international rugby so I think it’s Halfpenny but couldn’t swear to it. That’s how confusing it is.
I think the centrals are better but still not some of the silly french money (or what is now starting to look like the silly English money given the Madigan reports). If you add up club salaries and Welsh appearance money then they start getting closer but Halfpenny is on 600Kpa, no Welsh club could dream of matching that, even with a top-up from central (I’m sure you know this but just in case, the central contracts are actually duals – top up cash added by WRU to the club salary). However, locally the boys would be better managed, etc. if that is what they want. I’m sure that was a huge part of Jonathan Davies returning plus the home factor – it seems like some of the Welsh boys just didn’t enjoy being overseas as much as they thought.
Didn’t realise that about Priestland. Who has a rest midway through their career? Strange! What other 10 options do Wales have? I assume this opens up a debate about Owen Williams? He looks a top player at Leicester but that doesn’t really solve the issue.
I knew the contracts were “dual”, as opposed to central contracts. What is the make up of that? I.e. is it 50/50 or do the WRU pay a lot more of the contracts? Or it on a case by case?
Difficult one for Wales. Are the WRU able to contribute more and more to address the problem? Would they even want to?
Apologies for the mass questioning by the way; I do realise that you don’t actually work for the WRU! But you always seem to know what is going on in Wales far more than media sources I use to rely on.
Other 10 options are, in probable current pecking order:
Anscombe/Patchell/MMorgan/Davies(Sam) …… Shingler/Tovey …. Hook.
That is assuming Williams is excluded but it is never clear if he is or isn’t.
Makeup is case by case – in some cases WRU portion is small e.g. 15K of a 60K contract, in some cases much bigger. Don’t think there are any where it is 50%. I expect the size to increase now it’s more cooperative than before.
Not sure what happens in the future given the change of leadership at the WRU. There is hope that this stops the Lewis v Clubs period we have been going through and we get something that works for Wales and the Clubs. Initial noises are good and some solid results – JD returning (which is both Jonathan Davies and Judgement Day), Prem Select XVs in the B&I, increase of funding to clubs, etc. It is going to be a long hard road (especially for Cardiff) but I am much, much more optimistic than I was 12 months ago.
As for Bath Brighty, yes and no, at their best Bath can play a wide front foot attacking game combined with a rapid counter-attacking with quick hands and lots of different angles, the semi-final v Leicester last year is a good example of this, however, at the moment, and I think missing JJ at the moment isn’t helping, they are playing a tighter game (as you suggest) than the back end of last season and I don’t think they are at their best when they revert to that type of play.
Fair enough – I rarely see them. I don’t watch the Prem so it’s just the odd game in the Euro cup when I do see them. I think the last time I watched them was twice against Glasgow last year.
No worries, can’t say I catch much Pro12! I didnt mention in my last post, but I do think you are right though, I dont think the way Bath are playing at the moment provides we with much hope for the Toulon fixture, the only good thing is it’s not til the end of Jan so time to find the better version of the attacking game, just the double fixtures v Wasps to get through first!
Dai Young would be a v good wales coach post Gatland.
Agree that EC success does not always translate into national success (Ireland for many years).
Weirdly the opposite seems to be a good thing to follow if you’re into betting – take Eng/Wal/Fra/Ire and the worse their pro teams do in Europe the better they do in the 6Ns. Scotland are just a weird anomaly and I’m afraid that Italy are just rubbish.
So using that logic the England team for the 6 nations should exclude all Sarries, Wasps and Leicester players and include as many players from Exeter as possible, with challenge cup teams, and a smattering of Bath and Northampton players to fill the holes
Non-euro success team for England
Marler, Cowan-Dickie, Brookes, Parling, Ewers, Kvesic, Morgan, Care, Ford, May, Slade, Joseph, Nowell, Pennell
Obviously because Bath and Northampton don’t have any overseas players? Oh and you do know Ewers comes from Zimbabwe?
English qualified and lived here for years, though so not seeing the point.
I know that but was responding to Leon’s post. He seemed to be indicating that certain clubs have too many International players, then picked a player he thought was English?!
WTF my post had nothing to do with nationality
I was replying to Brightys post that historically if a countries clubs do well in Europe then the national team seems to struggle
Heaven forbid I should jokingly say that we shouldn’t pick any players from your beloved Sarries
Apologies, I got the wrong end of the stick. I have now beaten myself round the head with said stick, and will keep my nose out of it!!
Funny thing is Leon, the team you put down actually looks pretty good. Would be even better if they had an extra lock though.
If you had Ward, Auterac, Sinckler, Attwood, Robshaw, Dickson, Cipriani and Brown/Watson on the bench?
Apology accepted
Just goes to show how much depth there is in the English player pool. Issue is less about who gets selected and more about how we want to play the game. Once that is decided you can pick the players best suited to that gameplan and then pick a Plan B and choose an appropriate bench.
p.s. I would put between 3 and 5 Sarries players in my team (mainly forwards though)
“each team has a core/spine of excellent overseas purchases that makes the 3% difference”. Interestingly Brighty you could almost say the same about most of the national squads in the 6N, as we all have some imports in there?!
That is true Dazza. One of the things I never (and still don’t) understand about “the coach must be English” is that a few of his key players won’t be, the best players in his league might not be, so why does he have to be? Seemed like an odd thing to get excited about.
(and no, this isn’t anti-English in case someone decides it is – I am well aware of how many non-Welsh-born/parented/etc. players we have in the Welsh squad).
Spot on Brighty!! I am hoping that Jones will breathe some new life into the England set up. I don’t care what nationality the coach is, as long as he is the best available.
Bath really should have won by more. Their kicking from hand was woeful and handed momentum and points to Leinster on a plate. Why they didn’t keep ball in hand is a mystery.
Echo the views above re Armitage and the folly of abandoning the foreign player rule. I think it needs tweeking (ie the club’s need to more accommodating to the Eng head coach imo, so that he has the necessary options). For those lauding Cheika look no further than Toomua. For the short term gain of having 30+ Giteau for WC, they have lost a younger 20 something talent.
Blimey not sure anyone on here thinks England are favourites for 6N. Not a hope – we’ve got quite a bit to sort out first. However given good coaching, I’d like to think we’d be in with a shout in 2017.
Nobody here, but my twitter feed got very excited with the “not since 2008 have Eng teams had a clean sweep round” statistic + new coach == Eng squad problems fixed. Not a necessarily widely held view, especially not on here, which is why I specifically mentioned Twitter. I’m not trying to be Enoch, I promise.
They are, of course, favourites with the bookies for the title and the grand slam :-)
Don’t worry – wasn’t mistaking you for Enoch! You are joking about England being bookies favourite aren’t you? Just checking!! I know I’m going to get into trouble with the Scots for this but I’m looking at Wales, Ireland, England, Scotland, France and Italy in that order at the moment.
But back to your original point and i guess this is where you will agree with Enoch and I suppose that I do too really. The English press (and i guess Twittersphere as well) does ridiculously ovrhype everything that England does. However on this occasion, after all we’ve been through, even I’m a bit excited, so don’t begrudge us that!
I think you have every reason to be excited – new coach bounce, talent performing well in clubs, etc.
As for the odds, yep – Eng are faves with the bookies. William Hill for example has Eng 2/1, Ire & Wal 11/4, Fra 9/2, Sco 14/1.
Bookies odds are rarely a true reflection of a teams chances
England are always bookies fravorites for the 6N because they need to balance the odds according to the amount of moeny being laid down by stupid English one eyed punters
Thanks Leon, that does at least explain that discrepancy. Who plays at home in their head to head this year. Wales or Ireland? Still fancy Wales but it still isn’t long odds on them. Scotland at 14/1 would be where my shilling would go based on those odds. Will probably stick to Superbru though. It’s cheaper!
Totally understand that Leon. It’s the last part that brings it back around to what tends to rile some Welsh fans in the build up to things. They’re the faves because, paraphrasing you here, some stupid Eng fans are putting down so much money because there is an assumption of winning. Yes, I know Enoch is a proper mentalist, but there is a tiny, tiny grain of truth in what he says, that he manages to twist and twist, in that if you took a Twickers Eng fan crowd and did a quick poll you’d get more than 50% assuming they’re always going to win, no matter what the form, oppo, etc So if someone wanted to make a jibe/dig about “arrogant English” then they have some stats to go with that reflect their prejudices. However, no different to a sizable proportion of a Mill Stad crowd assuming Eng will stick it up the jumper, Scotland will be plucky, all Irish fans are our celtic brethren and hence won’t mind losing, etc.
I fear I’ve chased my tail down the rabbit hole here making a long winded explanation of what was meant to be a quick quip about the clueless fans making predictions based on 1 weekend of results….
Yes and no
Stupid (Translate to Enoch: Arrogant) Welsh, Irish and Scottish fans are also put down money on their teams but due to the dis-propotinate size of the fan bases the value of money put down by the stupid English fans tips the odds towards England
Brighty I would imagine that 90% or so of Welsh fans expect Wales to win every game at the Mill Stad. Doesn’t particularly make the Welsh arrogant does it. Realistic – possibly. Optimistic – definitely (like all sports supporters!). So why then should the fans at Twickenham be labelled arrogant if they expect England to win at home – where to be fair they have a very good record. I think we can disregard the ABs as opposition in this discussion for both sets of fans. I think that it might be a separate matter the number of English fools who are easily parted with their money betting on nothing more than blind optimism. But then again you could go to Chepstow race course and find plenty of those and not just English ones at that.
I still maintain that the English are somewhat unfairly labelled as an arrogant nationality. I bet that there are a similar percentage of arrogant Welsh, Scots and Irish, but because we have a larger population, it seems disproportionate. And then sadly because of this larger number the press then pander to a point of view because there are enough idiots out there to sell stories to! Just remember that numbers wise we probably have more rational considered individuals than the other nations as well, but we/they don’t make the headlines! Sermon over!
Well, French rugby has not made very good results this week-end…. due to the events.
But wait and see, we french are gonna waken up !
http://www.comeonsport.com/RUGBY,68.html