Tell us what you thought of today’s game between the Hurricanes and the Lions.
Did anyone stake a claim for a Test spot on Saturday?
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Tell us what you thought of today’s game between the Hurricanes and the Lions.
Did anyone stake a claim for a Test spot on Saturday?
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First, a whinge.
I’m not in favour at all of the call ups for the 3 Welsh and Dell – Russell and Davies I think have a decent argument. I think I’m in the majority there.
I don’t have a problem with the principle of adding them to the tour, just the personnel.
To add to the frustration, Gatland refuses to bring them off the bench. Most of these guys will be Lions in the history books without ever taking the field.
None of this is their fault – I feel sorry for them, frankly.
Today it felt like some impact off the bench could have been the difference. There were quality options could have called up that he wouldn’t then have been afraid to use.
As it was, the bench remained largely intact and the 80 minute guys looked knackered. Not sure any of them would be right for Saturday if needed.
I just don’t get it. Real black mark against Gatland.
Agreed also that was Biggars third HIA in the tournament. Why is he not on a plane home already? I wonder if Dr James Robson was on tour if he’d still be playing?
Is it that these players just arent up to the standard needed to play the Canes? or by giving these players a cap would Gatland be further “devaluing” the jersey, confirming everything the critics have said?
Either way, the Lions have drawn a test match they led should have won. Substitutions were needed and the changes weren’t made, all as a result of poor squad selection by the coach.
They won’t be lions unless they take the field. At the moment i think they are just glorified tackle bags for training sessions
Looks like you’re right Leon, the official list only has a Lions number for Dell (and after today Russell), so a bench spot isn’t enough. I assumed it would be.
That’s something at least.
Can I just say that Laidlaw’s distribution was dreadful! Every time, he would take an extra second and then fire a pass at Biggar’s head / feet. Hard to get forward momentum when your 9 is giving the opposition an extra metre in defense!
Yep. I’m sure he’s a good leader and has some other qualities, but he is not good enough to be on tour. Slows the game up so much.
Jim, I totally agree, I was screaming at the TV. His distribution speed was a disgrace. And when he did finally get it out Biggar normally had to stretch to reach it taking more pace out the game.
The whole idea of bringing more players out halfway throughout the tour, to apparently prevent burnout is ridiculous. They knew the schedule, and knew that some players would likely be playing one match and then appearing on the bench for the next. Why not take more players in the initial squad selection? This wouldve given players the chance to build chemistry and cohesion, whilst allowing greater rest. The unions may not have been that keen but its the Lions…in NZ!
As a result of the (largely suspect) choices of Hill et al, we have subs that arent of a high enough playing standard to take the field, even when needed, and players playing in large parts of subsequent games.
I don’t necessarily agree that it’s ridiculous, but I do question the need for bench cover if he’s happy to play the mid-weekers 80 mins anyway. We could have filled the bench easily in that scenario with what we already had.
Maybe a bit overzealous in my criticism. I do feel though that there are players out there that could have been subs for this game that would have made a difference.
Worst Lions squad ever – coaching included
I think Andy Titterrell, Ollie Smith, Brent Cockbain and the like might have a claim to that honour with their 2005 squad…
It is an embarrassment that a team of internationals let a game they had sown up fall to pieces. Once again we had no line speed and our clearing out at the rucks was awful, coupled with Laidlaws pedestrian service meant the backs had nothing to work with.
Well if Kruis was on the bench to prove his inclusion in the 2nd test he failed miserably (this from a Sarries fan).
Hoping that Lawes did enough to at least get on the bench but would prefer to see him and Maro starting to add some bite to the scrum.
Didn’t see enough from North to warrant him being included. Joseph was pretty quiet but to be honest he was never given an opportunity in space. I’d have him in the bench rather than HP though. Other than that no one else really putting their hand up, maybe Cole? But he was forced to do an 80min shift which is practically unheard of for a prop so doubt he’ll be good to go for Sat.
Just really frustrated as this looked like a great confidence boost for the Lions ahead of the 2nd test but was a massive opportunity wasted.
Watching it back, North should have scored the try following the grubber from JJ. He has plenty of space, only has to fall over the line and yet he puts a foot in touch.
One try that he just runs in surely doesn’t justify inclusion for the test.
I didn’t see the game but see that Lawes came off after 50 mins. Assuming this wasn’t injury related I’d say this is indicative of his inclusion on Saturday, particularly as the text commentary was saying he was playing a blinder.
‘Gatland’s self-destructive but deserved Demise’ would be the title of the book of this tour currently… the man is proving to be a bit of a fool and letting pride/ego get in the way….
He should never have called up most of the geographical 6 in the first place … call it bringing in his welsh friends or just bad planning it should not have happened. Now he has taken a huge amount of flack for that decision … instead of sticking to his guns he has backtracked and refused to play them thus creating a scenario were we lose a match and have good players that should be in contention for saturday/the following week play a full 80 and look knackered!
if he wasnt going to play them at all they are that bad then he should have flown out launchberry etc to sit on the bench … they would have been fine this week, would have strengthened the squad on a whole and wouldn’t have needed to fly home tomorrow as would be valuable additions!
Couple that with Gatlands insistence on playing AWJ and having 2 truck it centers! (both have played very well in my opinion but when you have wings/FB shown to be as deadly as we have you want them to see more ball in phase play not going to happen from those 2 … one should be on the bench to let Payne/JJ/Daly start at 13 and distribute)….
lastly on his ego… he has been told repeatedly by all the NH pundits etc that a) Howley is an awful coach… and b) play to your strengths keep it tight dont kick it away to much… it would appear the game plan was the opposite in order to show that he could do whatever Hansen does… (there are definitely some mitigating factors in this bit of argument that i am willfully ignoring to keep the theme of this post going … dont shoot me for it haha!)
2nd test will be interesting… Lawes + Itoje have to start in my mind (and has it not been for a full 80 Hendo on the bench… as it is Kruis) and Warbuton for POM to fight at breakdown and slow ball down… (or for SOB… wonder try apart he didnt have a large involvement??). ANYONE other than 1/2p on the bench who brings NOTHING from the bench.
its ok Hendo only played 70 mins in the end ;-)
Not much comment on the game itself so far. Some outstanding performances, some good ones and a couple of disappointments. Henderson was outstanding, and Lawes tackled really well. Both of them should be in front of AWJ and Kruis for Saturday, but having played the full 80 because of Gatland´s refusal to use his inadequate bench I can´t see Henderson being rested enough. Dan Coles has looked the best tight head on tour for the past two games. He seems to have finally put his bad neck injury behind him and is not giving away silly penalties. George North looked pretty good. His future may be in the centre where he doesn´t have to compete for so many high balls and is not at so much risk of head injury. James Haskell looks back to near his best and put in a huge amount of graft, while Stander looked good for 50 minutes but faded badly. Either of them would be a better bet than Warburton. Biggest disappointment has to be JJ who I thought would put his hand up for Saturday but didn´t.
As an ex ref I´m always reluctant to criticise them, but I simply don´t understand why Poite is anywhere near international level. He is fussy, indecisive, inconsistent and completely ignores whole swathes of the law book. The Henderson yellow card was given while the Lions were playing an advantage for a previous penalty and was sufficiently contentious that he had to be persuaded to give the yellow by repeated assertions from the TMO having initially viewed the incident and dismissed it. It swung the whole game. His control of two other aspects of the game was also dire. It seemed to be perfectly acceptable for the second Hurricanes player arriving at the breakdown to dive full length over the tackled player to seal off the ball. Their number seven spent more time lying down over the ball than he did standing up. It also seemed to be permissible both to drive well past the ball to clear a man out of the ruck or maul and then remain as a blocker in front, and to creep up along the side of the maul changing bind on a regular basis so as to interfere with the drive. An absolutely dire performance. Have we got him on Saturday?
Apart from that, great credit to the Hurricanes who scored a couple of really good tries. Why can´t the Lions open up defences like that?
How did you feel about him blocking our tackler for their first try?
Just seen the highlights and he definitely impeeds Laidlaw not that I would put money on the diminutive Scrum half stopping the giant second row from a yard out
JK, as Eccles said when asked why he had been found hiding in a darkened cellar in the Goon show “Everybody got to be somewhere”. Not sure it made much difference, though he was clearly in Laidlaw’ s way.
Poor Henderson might be relieved to get that 10 minutes rest, I’d have him on the bench on Saturday if it wasn’t for Gatland’s refusal to take anyone off.
Pretty sure Dan Cole gave away at least 2 penalties… Anyone know where it is possible to find these match stats?
ESPNScrum is usually the best bet: http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/match?gameId=290601&league=268565
Dan Cole did indeed concede 2 penalties, along with Henderson and North.
24 tackles by Tipuric!
EPSN scrum have good player stats they say Cole gave away 2 pens
Not denying Cole gave away a couple of penalties, but at least one of them was a very dubious scrum collapse and the other was the sort of lying on the ball that Hurricanes got away with all day. He is no longer conceding the blatant, stupid off-side or playing it on the floor penalties that used to mar his game and imo is a much improved player in the past few months.
Tipuric was tremendous, a complete nuisance at the breakdown & never missed a tackle, should be in the 23 imho …
Who do you think will play 2nd row on Saturday on current form its Itoje Lawes Henderson.
Back row on form is O,Brian Tuperic {played well today} and Faletau.
Agreed Sevegolf.
I would like to see Itoje and Lawes replace Kruis (poor last game) and AWJ (poor all tour) with Henderson (very good in last 3 games and getting better) filling the lock berths.
Can’t see Gats changing centres unless he goes for Farrell at 12.
I thought Tipuric was excellent today and deserves a place in the bank row along with SOB and TF.
Don’t think Cole did enough to warrant a starting Jersey and perhaps not the bench either although perhaps he or Market (who went equally well) may replace the existing bench cover in that position.
You just said my choice too, Tips has been outstanding in every game , always on the shoulder of the carrier , why Davies wasn’t given some game time is a mystery , been the best 9 in pro 12 this season , outplayed Murray and Webb on the way to a championship win , quick and strong ,with Russell prob only other back worthy of a call up.Hendy was brilliant today and i would pick him for the test , with Tips and Webb = 3 changes , otherwise same 15 again , Bigger deserves to be on the bench, yet to see Farrell worth an 8/10 , I don’t think we have a world class 10 in the UK, AND nobody in the Shane or Jason Robinson class either, I fail to see who the match winners are or if we have one.
What I find inexplicable and unforgivable is 3 times v Blues,Highlanders and Canes we held winning leads but finished up with 2 losses and a draw?Is fitness,mindset,Selection or what?Very very disappointing
Gatland
“So much was made about devaluing the jersey, so we made a decision we would try and get through the game with as many of the starting XV as we could,”
So essentially he is admitting that the call ups are rubbish and not up to Lions standards. He says he has no intetion of playing them which begs the question why was it so important that they came from the same timezone
I really feel bad for those players. They will have a 2 big kits bags full of lions kit, will forever be on the Lions 2017 Tour Wikipedia pages etc. Yet for all that, their national coach, someone who’s meant to help develop them, essentially admitted they weren’t good enough players.
I was outraged at the time that the likes of Launchbury wasn’t selected, now I’m pretty glad he had a two week holiday rather than hold a tackle bag. Let Gatland burn out his own teams as training ground players.
My reading of his comments wasn’t so much that he didn’t think that they were good enough, more that there was such an uproar about it that they decided they shouldn’t use those players. Which seems very un-Gatland and worryingly lacking in conviction.
It’s another bad decision to compound the first – once he’d called them up, he’d already taken the flak and should have used them rather than embarrassing the players/wasting their time and keeping guys on for 80 mins that may be needed in a few days, in the process probably throwing away a win.
He needs to stop ****ing around quite frankly and pull himself together. If nothing else, he’s doing serious damage to his chances of ever coaching the ABs.
Just watched the game and have to agree with comments above re Gatlands decisions. He has made serious errors with call-ups and use of them that has, potentially, cost Lions not only warm up games but chances in the tests too. I think he and Howley have been awful with their management and coaching and must have suffered real damage to their reputations …. interesting to see how they get on back in the welsh camp after this